[basehead617]

Originally Posted by JViello

What do you live in a vacuum? Everywhere these types of "laws" have been inacted have shown an increase in sexual predation.

Where are you getting this information?

[basehead617]

I agree with a previous poster that this thread is very sad. It says a lot.

It's funny how the 'freedom' mantra gets thrown away when people disagree with what someone else wants to do -- it becomes.. "well what about my freedom to be free to not have them express themselves freely?". Err. ok.

And I haven't seen so many red herrings since last time I went red herring fishing.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by JViello

I honestly do not recognize my state any longer. Bathroom Bill HB6599 has passed commitee and the amendments asked for by the Family Institute of CT and several legislators were shot down.

So, basically any male can now claim to be "sexually unsure" toss on a dress and use the ladies room or join an all female gym. This is a sexual predators DREAM.

The amendment to have "transitioning" K through 5 teachers suspend until their "transition" was complete was shot down. So Kindergarteners will be subject to Mrs Jones morphing into Mr Jones. Great, I'm sure they are ready to deal with that at 5 years old.

Below is a play by play via Facebook from Peter Woflgang of the FIC who was the fly on the wall.

TR's amendment, which would have cured the bathroom part of the bill, voted down on an almost-straight party-line vote. Democrats WANT this to be the Bathroom Bill.

Committee just voted NO on amendment that would at least allow Boards of Ed to suspend "transitioning" K-5 teachers until they're done "transitioning." Judiciary Committee wants to expose small children even to THIS.

Committee voted down amendment to increase criminal penalty if sex predator uses transgender law to commit bathroom attacks.

Bill passed out of committee by wide margin. Linda, I have Albis voting no but my staffer says he voted yes. Will get clarification.

This state has gone mad. Absolutely mad.

Do you really think sexual predators would have obeyed the women-only-in-women's-restrooms law to begin with? This doesn't enable sexual predators any more than not having the law did because they probably weren't following the old law anyway. It does enable the kind of conscientious and thoughtful types that would have obeyed the law to begin with, so that now they can use the bathroom that fits them best from a psychological and social point of view, rather than just based on physiology.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by JViello

Good point, and frankly I think that deepens the crazyness here. Just because you have an "identity crisis" doesn't change your sex. Period.

If it's not about "gay" rights...what IS it about?

Letting people be who they want to be as long as it's not harming anyone else. And frankly, I don't see how someone with a penis wanting to live socially as a female or vice versa harms anyone. In fact, more often than not, people don't even know. Most transsexuals pass as the gender they interact socially as without anyone ever even finding out they have the opposite-sex genitalia. Often it's only when transsexuals decide to be open about it that other people realize they're transsexual. The type of transsexuals where you can "tell" they have transitioned are the minority. There are many transsexuals out there who fly under the radar as men and women.

What do you live in a vacuum? Everywhere these types of "laws" have been inacted have shown an increase in sexual predation. You think it's okay for someones 6 year old daughter to be naked from the lower half with men in the room taking a piddle in the next stall?

Have you never seen some of the sick crap out there? I'm not willing to "help" these predators because someone doesn't like their penis or wishes they had one.

The link between being transgender and a sexual predator is a myth. Many sexual predators are just your average heterosexual male or female. The vast majority of transgender people have no desire to sexually assault anyone. And of those people who are sexual predators, it's rarely because of their orientation. Most pedophiles don't abuse children sexually and most child molesters aren't abusers. To give you an example, I've been molested by both men and women and both of them were married and identified as heterosexual. Yet I myself identify as non-gender-conforming and I have no desire whatsoever to hurt other children in the way I was hurt.

Being transgender and being a sexual predator are two completely distinct, unrelated conditions.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by JViello

Kristin, that's just it. All the FIC was asking for was an amendment regarding sexual predators and every single amendment proposal was shot down. Every one and it was straight down the party line by Democrats. They WANTED it to be a bathroom bill. (Three Republicans voted for it as well)



It doesn't legalize it, but it enables it and gives it a nice helping hand. And you once again are trying to say those in opposition are targeting the cross dressers when that is NOT the case. We are targeting a stupid law that in no way can be enforced with any kind of standard and allows men into a womans privacy and vice versa.

It's as stupid as being asked if you have any bombs on you at the airport. Imagine if that was the only security measure used. Well this is that.

The first woman who gets targeted by a predator in drag, followed into the bathroom and raped I'm sure will thank you for your support of a bill like this.

Someone close to me was in fact the victom of a rape and let me tell you...she is NOT happy about this bill and in fact freaked out to the point she may leave the state based on this alone.

Where is your heart towards those people? Instead we worry about sensitivity issues and open the door for criminals to hunt. Great.

Guess what--so was I--and none of my rapists needed to cross-dress in order to rape me. There are plenty of places where rape can happen and a bathroom is only one of them. Rapists now can just as easily choose any other gender-neutral place, or can simply break the gendered bathroom laws. I was raped in my bathroom at my house--should we react to this by enforcing gendered bathrooms in private homes? Men could cross-dress as women and pass well enough to get into a women's bathroom even when it was illegal. I'm sure there are cases where this has already been done. It's not like the law was stopping them. After all, if they're raping someone, they obviously don't care much about obeying the law.

My heart goes out to rape victims. But rape is not a transgender issue. The two are completely unrelated. Mixing these two issues into one is not accurate and not fair to transgender people, who like most people in general, have no desire to rape anyone.

ETA: Enforcing gendered bathrooms in private homes wouldn't even work because come to think of it, I was raped by someone of the same sex. So basically, enforcing gendered bathrooms with the intention of reducing rape assumes two things: 1) Rapists actually follow laws to begin with 2) All rape is opposite-sex. Neither of which are the case.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by JViello

If you people would take 5 minutes to do a shred of research you would find just how common bathroom attacks are right now. Why on God's earth would we make it MORE EASY for this to take place?

Here is a recent one:

11-Year-Old Girl Gang Raped in California Park Bathroom
11-Year-Old Girl Gang Raped in California Park Bathroom - FoxNews.com

Oooo I know a link to evil "Fox News"...don't bother going there.

Doesn't make it easier because it was just as easy to cross-dress before. It was just also illegal.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka

I'm still trying to figure out why there's this huge argument here and I'm not even sure which side to bat on

When I see a leak room, I take a leak and walk away. Other people don't do this?? They fight for their leaking rights?? Seriously? This thread has taken a comical turn and is quite entertaining. I love pissing contests.

Oh now, on to my long term doubts, if a woman were to cross dress and enter the men's room, will she be able to take a leak in the bowl standing up?? How does Pascal's law of fluids work here? LMAO, I'm aaaaaaaall ears.

If you were harassed for going into the appropriate bathroom, you would feel like you had to stand up for your right to take a leak too. I get read as both male and female and it seems no matter which bathroom I choose, someone is there to correct me. This was even worse when I was blind because people thought I didn't know I was going into the "wrong bathroom." (That's what braille signs are for. ) There really isn't any safe option for transgendered people in most places right now. I use the family restroom whenever I can cause it's the only way I can use a public restroom without someone giving me crap or freaking out once I go in and either saying I'm in the wrong bathroom or thinking they went into the wrong bathroom. But it would be nice if I could use either the ladies' or the men's (preferably the ladies' since they tend to be cleaner) without having to worry about someone harassing me for going into the wrong bathroom.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by goldenband

I simply don't think this is a reasonable fear. If a guy wants to do this now, and he can "pass" as female when in drag, there's absolutely nothing stopping him. I think too many people having been watching Psycho reruns on TV.

And again, what's the alternative? Having someone at the door to screen each person's "equipment"? Barring anyone born male from a women's bathroom? What about intersexed people who are born with male chromosomes but look female, or who have both sets of "equipment" to some degree? Who decides who gets to go in, and who verifies the alleged facts?

Exactly. It's not like biological gender can be logistically enforced now. It isn't. Tons of trans people who pass well probably already use the bathroom that matches their perceived gender and not their biological sex without anyone ever noticing. It's called using a stall.

I know a fair number of black and Jewish people in their 60s or older and who grew up in areas of virulent racism, like certain parts of Boston (for example). One thing I've learned in conversations with them is that people can be remarkably ingenious in finding new and creative ways to screw over members of a group they despise. Important paperwork or irreplaceable documents can mysteriously disappear -- that sort of thing. So the electric company might not care what gender you are, but one of their employees might, and now the electric company is potentially liable for his/her actions.

Yep, this has happened to me (except with disability). One college I went to "mysteriously lost" my documentation proving blindness TWICE and "forgot to inform me" until the day after class registration. I think they probably just didn't want to pay the extra money to get my textbooks transcribed into braille.

And then of course there are all the times when there was a job opening and I was the perfect candidate on the phone until I showed up with my white cane and suddenly "all the positions were taken up." At one time, I was called and encouraged to come down and interview ASAP. It was down the street so I showed up ten minutes later, white cane in hand, at which point "the position was filled up." Funny how things happen that way, isn't it?

Even when the law protects a group from being discriminated, there are plenty of other ways of discriminating against said group in a way that flies under the radar. This happens to transgender people all the time. This happens to all groups of people all the time. Discrimination is barely restricted to whatever happens to be written in law.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by JViello

Bullsh*t. I would question your actual experience around transgender people. That video SCR posted...In 2 seconds in, I realized it was a man. It's pretty obvious saying otherwise is pandering to your agenda.

But what you don't see is all the transgender people who do pass successfully as a man or a woman, who you just see as a man or a woman. You can't judge how successfully transgender people just based on the ones where you can tell. Who knows how many men or women you pass on the street every day who are actually biologically not what you would expect.

There are times when I have have come off as totally male. There have been times when I corrected them and told them I'm female and yet they STILL were convinced I was male. All this through having female parts. They didn't even know I was transgender, so from their perspective, I was just another man.

[Peony321]

a person who is gay is not a pedophile. power to the people regarding the bathrooms. dont like it use your own potty.