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You make it sound like they weren't vaccinating for everything because it wasn't law, not because they had serious concerns. You are essentially forcing all of these parents with serious concerns to choose between vaccinating and putting food on their table. That is force.
Except vaccines aren't risk free and there are many who have vaccinated WITH incident.
You are trying to pretend that there are many low income people who choose not to vaccinate their children. That is not true.
There are not "many" who have been vaccinated "WITH incident". Children truly injured by vaccines are extremely rare.
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
Nope. But those who homeschool need to be able to make enough to have one parent stay home with the kids or be able to hire someone to stay home with them while they work.
If both parents work they need to have child care anyway. One parent staying home saves the cost of that.
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Average. I thought you understood statistics.
You can try to deny it, but vaccine refusers for the most part are not indigent. The clusters of unimmunized children are in geographic areas that coincide with higher socioeconomic status. It is not the poor single mom who is deliberately not vaccinating her children.
Just because some can make it work does not mean all can make it work. It's absurd that you continue to insist otherwise.
Those who want to make it work will make it work. They will find jobs that allow them the time needed to spend with the kids. Home schooling does not need to be done between 9 AM and 3 PM. It can be done on weekends and during evenings.
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Originally Posted by Jo48
No, Suzy, they do not drop off work. They tutor them for hours because these ill at home kids are entitled to received "tutoring" while they cannot attend school during their extended illness. It comes under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Yes, they provide 1:1 education to these homebound kids. Many full time teachers do this after school hours to make extra money, in addition to teachers who "Sub".
Yes, but it is not full time five days per week. A brief session with Google shows that an hour per day (5 hours per week) is common. Home bound schooling is intended to be temporary, until a child is able to return to school, not the only source of the child's entire education.
Although this thread makes me wonder if I should rethink vaccinations. We have people on both sides of the fence -- both anti-vaccine people and people who think unvaccinnated children shouldn't be educated -- saying that it's usually the highly educated parents that choose not to educate their kids. If the highly educated parents are the ones who don't want to do it, maybe there is a good reason?
Any links that provide more information on this topic, based on actual research and not speculation, would be welcome.
You are trying to pretend that there are many low income people who choose not to vaccinate their children. That is not true.
There are not "many" who have been vaccinated "WITH incident". Children truly injured by vaccines are extremely rare.
If both parents work they need to have child care anyway. One parent staying home saves the cost of that.
You can try to deny it, but vaccine refusers for the most part are not indigent. The clusters of unimmunized children are in geographic areas that coincide with higher socioeconomic status. It is not the poor single mom who is deliberately not vaccinating her children.
Those who want to make it work will make it work. They will find jobs that allow them the time needed to spend with the kids. Home schooling does not need to be done between 9 AM and 3 PM. It can be done on weekends and during evenings.
Yes, but it is not full time five days per week. A brief session with Google shows that an hour per day (5 hours per week) is common. Home bound schooling is intended to be temporary, until a child is able to return to school, not the only source of the child's entire education.
Absolutely unbelievable that you continue to insist that all parents can just homeschool if they are against all of the vaccines on the schedule. It's a shockingly obtuse position to take.
Although this thread makes me wonder if I should rethink vaccinations. We have people on both sides of the fence -- both anti-vaccine people and people who think unvaccinnated children shouldn't be educated -- saying that it's usually the highly educated parents that choose not to educate their kids. If the highly educated parents are the ones who don't want to do it, maybe there is a good reason?
Any links that provide more information on this topic, based on actual research and not speculation, would be welcome.
Most of these "educated" people that refuse vaccinations do not have degrees in any health related field or in biological science related fields. Most have not taken a science course since high school, or possibly a "survey" course in early college. Most engineers, computer jocks, etc have not taken a biology course since high school. These people, in a nutshell, do NOT understand vaccines.
Highly educated parents don't usually avoid doing something generally considered helpful without learning a lot more about the subject first. They don't make important decisions based on whims or trends. They study the issue and give it a great deal of thought first. If "highly educated parents" think something is harmful enough that they'd keep their kids out of school to avoid it, then it's probably something worth learning a little more about.
Highly educated parents don't usually avoid doing something generally considered helpful without learning a lot more about the subject first. They don't make important decisions based on whims or trends. They study the issue and give it a great deal of thought first. If "highly educated parents" think something is harmful enough that they'd keep their kids out of school to avoid it, then it's probably something worth learning a little more about.
I did. I consulted my parents, both of whom work in medicine, who helped me sort through the research while I was pregnant. After my children were born, I vaccinated each one of them without a moment's hesitation.
Last edited by randomparent; 07-05-2015 at 10:08 PM..
Absolutely unbelievable that you continue to insist that all parents can just homeschool if they are against all of the vaccines on the schedule. It's a shockingly obtuse position to take.
Its the same "obtuse" position that no fewer than three legislative committees (two in the Senate and one i the Assembly) took. Its the same position that the California Senate took by a vote of about 24 to 10 and the Assembly took by a vote of approximately 40 to 24. Its the same obtuse position that Governor Brown took, I suppose, when he signed the bill.
Finally, its the same position that the public takes when it supports mandatory vaccination by 78%.
Someday, maybe you'll start to get the idea. Your position is not widely held. You lost because the vast majority of the public that plays by the rules is tired of being held hostage by a few anti-vaxxers.
Don't make the mistake of thinking this stops with California.
Its the same "obtuse" position that no fewer than three legislative committees (two in the Senate and one i the Assembly) took. Its the same position that the California Senate took by a vote of about 24 to 10 and the Assembly took by a vote of approximately 40 to 24. Its the same obtuse position that Governor Brown took, I suppose, when he signed the bill.
Finally, its the same position that the public takes when it supports mandatory vaccination by 78%.
Someday, maybe you'll start to get the idea. Your position is not widely held. You lost because the vast majority of the public that plays by the rules is tired of being held hostage by a few anti-vaxxers.
Don't make the mistake of thinking this stops with California.
It is a simple concept. If your income is limited, you are likely in a job that will not pay you if you need to stay at home with a sick child. Suppose you have two children. One gets sick. Just as he is getting well, the other gets sick. More kids, and the domino effect continues. Kids with vaccine preventable diseases are not going to be ill for just a few days, they may have to stay home a week or two: many are hospitalized. The low income parent may end up missing so much work that he loses his job.
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Originally Posted by OutdoorsyGal
The Disneyland outbreak sickened 147 people in the U.S., including 131 in California. There were no deaths.
I know the thread is long, but two measles deaths have been discussed earlier. One is a child who will soon die from a delayed complication of measles. He had measles as an infant and is now about five years old. An immunocompromised adult woman recently died from measles acquired about two months ago.
Last year there were over 600 cases of measles in the US. Declining vaccination rates will help measles to again circulate here, where it has been previously eliminated. As the number of cases goes up, we will see more deaths.
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So...no one actually died yet we have this hysteria about how every person should be vaccinated even though we know they are guaranteed to cause Autism/Aspbergers.
Vaccines do not cause autism. The evidence is clear on that point.
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I waited to get our son vaccinated and right after I did, he started getting asthma. Allergies and had to get allergy shots weekly for years. Totally not worth it. He's had problems breathing ever since. I'd never do it again If I could avoid it.
Vaccines do not cause asthma. It has been studied and there is no cause and effect relationship between the two.
"MMR vaccination early in life may have a protective effect against allergy at least up to age 7 and against asthma through age 13 yrs."
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Originally Posted by OutdoorsyGal
I didn't say they were guaranteed to cause Autism in every child, just that they are guaranteed to cause autism. We've had other issues regarding his brain ever since, such as headaches. Thank you for that last gesture, I appreciate it
Vaccines do not cause autism in any children.
I am also sorry that your child has asthma. I would encourage you to discuss your vaccine concerns with his doctor. Asthma increases the risk of some vaccine preventable illnesses, including pneumococcal diseases.
My point, though, is that some legislators who do look into the future might support the current law because they want to set a precedent to exclude kids from school for other reasons.
Do you think that would be good, or bad?
Any "other reasons" to exclude a child from school have to be considered on their own merits.
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