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Stopped reading there. Its obvious you are being willfully or unwillfully ignorant on what I've said here. I'm done discussing this topic with you as you've continuously misrepresented what I've said and put your own spin on my words.
Stan was talking about those who defended the assault and claimed they were the true victim of it. Thankfully the young girl is not speaking out in the open this as of right now but we would likely hear that she is making excuses and really didn't think the boy was cute enough but can't say that. Just look at posts from others and you'll see that. There have been several that your attention was brought to. You aren't the problem, you are offering a good solution but it is one that economically the country doesn't want to do even if it is in our best interest because we have too many people looking at the debt we run ourselves into and think all spending is wrong.
Riiiight. Just like there are "rapes" and then there are legitimate rapes.
Ah got to love the rape victim can will herself NOT to get pregnant logic...
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
Yes, you might be right about that one too.
What would you define as a legitimate rape? I think all rape when a woman says "no stop" and a man continues is legitimate rape. "Ask first, respect the answer."
You really seem to have a hard time grasping the idea of solving a problem without involving the justice system.
Didn't you know that the governments whole reason for existing is to take care of us all from cradle to grave,soup to nuts?
What is very,very sad is that some nowadays have the belief that they should run to the government to solve every little issue instead of actually solving some on their own...
Didn't you know that the governments whole reason for existing is to take care of us all from cradle to grave,soup to nuts?
What is very,very sad is that some nowadays have the belief that they should run to the government to solve every little issue instead of actually solving some on their own...
Sexual assault = every little issue.
Your baggage about your own criminal charges for your admitted assault on a classmate is apparent. Once a bully...
The reason laws governing conduct on the playground are being enforced (as they should be) is because kids are being raised without morals, ethics, impulse control and respect for others. Their parents are like posters on here who think second degree sexual assault on a 14 year old is no big deal (Jimj thought it was a 4/5 out of 10 on the range of playground misconduct - well I guess he didn't actually rape or murder someone, so there's that ).
The same kids who under the "no law" model would get detention would go home to parents who would likely complain that any punishment for their precious Johnny (or Jimmy) was too much. I'm glad this entire group of boys has learned about consequences. One less bundle of testosterone fired idiots heading off to college thinking their female peers are props for their jokes or urges
If you don't like the law and think that sexual assault shouldn't be illegal, I guess you could lobby to change that. As long as it is, offences that completely meet the requirements of the charge should be charged. He was charged as a juvenile, and will be able to explain his behaviour at court. Maybe the judge will have a different sense of humour and agree this was, in fact, a super funny prank.
Except that I have taken emotion out of my opinions. I've instead looked at the facts, context and consequences for all sides considered which is why I am so vehement in my posts here.
How DARE YOU! How dare you not conform like a good little drone and dare to actually use your own mind instead of depending on the collective to consider both sides of the equation?
Didn't you know that all females are delicate little flowers that will wilt at any slight or unwanted touch?
What's sad is that we've come to a point where the first thought in many people's heads is to surrender all control to the "authorities" instead of attempting to deal with it themselves. Maybe the school systems and nanny state believers have done their job very well teaching people to surrender all decisions to a "higher authority"? What should be the last resort is now the first response.
I would think as a parent one would want to have a conversation with all parties involved to figure out what happened and what to do about it.
Nobody can say "well, it has to be the parents" because until you talk to them you've got no idea. I don't know how many times I've been told (as a kid) and I've told my son AND his friends "if someone dared you to jump off the bridge does that mean you do it?" and other variations of the same question.
That doesn't mean the kid is bad, just young and dumb or trying to hard to fit in with a crowd. Sometimes one or two don't listen and jump breaking a leg or arm. Does that mean they should be prosecuted for illegal jumping, or just be taught the lesson that doing something stupid gets you hurt AND grounded for a few hundred years?
If this boy had been lying in wait and of his own idea and volition (intent people, intent) jumped out and lip locked this girl for his own sexual gratification I'd have a different opinion about what should be done as that would make him a probable deviant but that's NOT what happened.
The world can't be a free for all. We have to have law and order to maintain order. There are people who would just go about their way committing crimes and assaulting others if they could, because they are psychopaths or sociopaths or otherwise mentally ill or whatever it is that causes people to commit crimes and hurt others. That's not fair for anyone. The law tries to curb that.
We have rights. No one has a right to touch you (unwanted). If they do, they lose some of their rights for violating basic rights and the law. No one has the right to do anything that impedes on your rights.
Perhaps a victim will NOT feel better knowing her rapist, or whatever, is in jail. It's tougher than that to gain trust and "normal" life back, but society is better when rapists and others who think people are theirs for the taking are off the streets. Because now he can't rape someone else. He can't destroy someone else's life. He can't break another woman. Society is better for having laws. The system is not perfect but it's good enough IMO.
And not everyone who inappropriately touches someone else is in fact a "psychopath or sociopath". Some may just be young and dumb or have mental/social disorder and really don't know better. We're talking about lips and a tongue not genitalia and forceable rape!
If I had to take a guess, I'd bet some of the "toss him in jail" female responders have their own past issues that they are projecting into this issue. Maybe being forced to do do something, maybe a high school or college date issue or something worse?
While I'm truly sad that something bad may have happened to them one cannot project one's own hurt and anger on others as it won't help either party.
Jimj, notwithstanding the rant, you're simply wrong.
At 13 he is accountable to behaviours he demonstrates. "I was dared" wouldn't be a reason to not hold him accountable if he shot someone and that defence is very unlikely to succeed here.
In fact that very fact makes it more likely he will be convicted, as one element of sexual assault is that it be "unwanted". If I was prosecuting the "dare" would be used as evidence for the fact he knew it was unwanted. It also means he had time between being dared and assaulting her to say "nope, this is a really bad idea".
Why he committed sexual assault ("his intent, people") will be part of his defence. There are no "parties involved" as you use the term. There is an attacker and a victim, it's not a school yard brawl and it doesn't appear that what actually occurred is in dispute.
The purpose of criminal charges is deterrence, so a kid who may be young and dumb learns his lesson (he may also be a complete predator who has done things like this before, none of us know that either).
I make assumptions about parents, yes. Parents that share your views, for example, are likely raising kids taught to act like they're the victim when they get caught for wrongdoing.
Does it ever occur to you, even once, to consider the impact on the middle school girl who was grabbed and had a tongue shoved down her throat while a posse of boys laughed and egged each other on (which is likely as the "dare" gets acted on) ? Every one of the kids on the playground, especially the young girls, should know they'll be protected from this type of assault.
I'm not going to argue this with you, the courts will take care of it.
Edit- to allege that only those that have been abused care about assault is, in a sea of absurdity a new high water mark. I haven't been abused in any fashion, nor have my daughters. The key to empathy is you can step outside your own experience to advocate for others.
The one projecting their experience is you, the one who admits (with strange pride) to being charged as an admitted high school assault perp.
Your baggage about your own criminal charges for your admitted assault on a classmate is apparent. Once a bully...
The reason laws governing conduct on the playground are being enforced (as they should be) is because kids are being raised without morals, ethics, impulse control and respect for others. Their parents are like posters on here who think second degree sexual assault on a 14 year old is no big deal (Jimj thought it was a 4/5 out of 10 on the range of playground misconduct - well I guess he didn't actually rape or murder someone, so there's that ).
The same kids who under the "no law" model would get detention would go home to parents who would likely complain that any punishment for their precious Johnny (or Jimmy) was too much. I'm glad this entire group of boys has learned about consequences. One less bundle of testosterone fired idiots heading off to college thinking their female peers are props for their jokes or urges
If you don't like the law and think that sexual assault shouldn't be illegal, I guess you could lobby to change that. As long as it is, offences that completely meet the requirements of the charge should be charged. He was charged as a juvenile, and will be able to explain his behaviour at court. Maybe the judge will have a different sense of humour and agree this was, in fact, a super funny prank.
I do believe I've stated that I was fine with what punishment I got but I guess in your zeal to paint all those of the male gender as bad or potential rapists from birth to death you might have missed it?
Jimj, notwithstanding the rant, you're simply wrong.
At 13 he is accountable to behaviours he demonstrates. "I was dared" wouldn't be a reason to not hold him accountable if he shot someone and that defence is very unlikely to succeed here.
In fact that very fact makes it more likely he will be convicted, as one element of sexual assault is that it be "unwanted". If I was prosecuting the "dare" would be used as evidence for the fact he knew it was unwanted. It also means he had time between being dared and assaulting her to say "nope, this is a really bad idea".
Why he committed sexual assault ("his intent, people") will be part of his defence. There are no "parties involved" as you use the term. There is an attacker and a victim, it's not a school yard brawl and it doesn't appear that what actually occurred is in dispute.
The purpose of criminal charges is deterrence, so a kid who may be young and dumb learns his lesson (he may also be a complete predator who has done things like this before, none of us know that either).
I make assumptions about parents, yes. Parents that share your views, for example, are likely raising kids taught to act like they're the victim when they get caught for wrongdoing.
Does it ever occur to you, even once, to consider the impact on the middle school girl who was grabbed and had a tongue shoved down her throat while a posse of boys laughed and egged each other on (which is likely as the "dare" gets acted on) ? Every one of the kids on the playground, especially the young girls, should know they'll be protected from this type of assault.
I'm not going to argue this with you, the courts will take care of it.
Edit- to allege that only those that have been abused care about assault is, in a sea of absurdity a new high water mark. I haven't been abused in any fashion, nor have my daughters. The key to empathy is you can step outside your own experience to advocate for others.
The one projecting their experience is you, the one who admits (with strange pride) to being charged as an admitted high school assault perp.
Question for clarification, hasn't 13 year olds been charged with murder as an adult? If so, I rest my case on if they know what they did was wrong and they need to face the music.
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What should be the last resort is now the first response.