Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can respect that. And I feel that's the way it should be. However, there are plenty of people out there of all religious stripes who are very aggressive/passive aggressive in convincing others they have the "right" religion and others are "wrong". And that can lead to some very ugly things beyond the irritating trend of people once in a while knocking on my door trying to get me to join their belief system, shoving pamphlets at me in the street, telling everyone they are wrong and if they don't believe in belief system "X" they are going to "Y". And beyond in some most ugly displays when the subjective nature of it all kicks into full gear by some.
I believe each person is responsible for their beliefs. We each have the obligation to verify all things and accept the consequences of our own choices. Based upon our own ability to research things. I believe intent and diligent effort is more important than perfection. I do not believe we will be held accountable for that which we do not have the ability to do or have the information to know. I do not claim to know who will go to heaven or Hell.
A person who blindly follows any religious leader is either lazy or foolish or both.
I do not believe I have ever asked anyone to believe as I do, from the day I accepted Islam. No Muslim represents any Muslim except them self. The only thing I desire for people to do is to judge each Muslim as an individual and not as a member of a group, We are not members of a group. We are no more a group than Atheists are. While some of us do belong to individual groups there is no central organization. all people that perform the act of Islam are Muslims. the only thing we have in common is we all claim to be Muslim.
is we all claim to be Muslim
Well, from all the various ways Muslims interpret Islam I would come to the conclusion that it was 1000 different religions that have only the word "Muslim" in common.
I never said that A (Dylan Roof) is justified. You brought A up to say B is justified, or more to the point that because of outlier A happens that people support or do not oppose people like A. This is furthest from the truth. These idiots have very minor amounts of supporters or followings. We are over 3 decades with the same idiots doing the same kinds of things with actually growing support.
Also Dylan Roof was not going to a church that preached hate and told him to kill people based on skin color or religion.
And most Mosques do not preach hate. We are conflating the actions of a very few people who are extremists and criminals with all Muslim faithful. The Islamic faith is practiced by 23% of the world's population, and we are talking about the criminal acts of ISIL a Wahhabi/Salafi jihadist extremist group which has somewhere between 80 and 100,000 members as though they represent all Muslim people
is we all claim to be Muslim
Well, from all the various ways Muslims interpret Islam I would come to the conclusion that it was 1000 different religions that have only the word "Muslim" in common.
I believe 1.7 billion would be more accurate as we do not belong to an organization and have no living central leader. We are each independent and answer only to God(swt) with no intermediaries between us and our worship of Allaah(swt)
Background checks, color of skin, gumby...where did all of that come from? My comments were in response to this:
I'm Not sure if you are trying to walk that back, or if you meant something other than what you said, but you very clearly claimed that Muslims are responsible for the acts of other Muslims. I addressed that and nothing else.
Of course, they are responsible. I'm responsible when Americans fight wars as well. We aren't individuals, we are a country, or a religion. All Muslims are responsible, all Americans are responsible. If you sit and do nothing then you get nothing.
It would send a clear message if all the M.E. Muslim countries sent troops to help fight and take back Syria.
Iraq, Afghanistan. We spend billions upon billions of U.S. dollars trying to train troops over there only to have them skip out and run back to Islamist extremist. We get a trickle of help from all of these neighboring countries. That alone sends a huge message, WE are alone. Muslims over there have no desire to help the U.S. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/wo...rces.html?_r=0
Why don't they take in refugees?
They are Muslim, the refugees are Muslim. Because Muslims also fear Muslims, that's why! So don't look down on Americans that also fear Muslims. As Wood stated, they are all individual in their quest to serve their god.
So far they are just spreading like fire across the world. If Muslims don't love their neighbors what do you suggest we do about it?
Of course, they are responsible. I'm responsible when Americans fight wars as well. We aren't individuals, we are a country, or a religion. All Muslims are responsible, all Americans are responsible. If you sit and do nothing then you get nothing.
It would send a clear message if all the M.E. Muslim countries sent troops to help fight and take back Syria.
Iraq, Afghanistan. We spend billions upon billions of U.S. dollars trying to train troops over there only to have them skip out and run back to Islamist extremist. We get a trickle of help from all of these neighboring countries. That alone sends a huge message, WE are alone. Muslims over there have no desire to help the U.S. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/wo...rces.html?_r=0
Why don't they take in refugees?
They are Muslim, the refugees are Muslim. Because Muslims also fear Muslims, that's why! So don't look down on Americans that also fear Muslims. As Wood stated, they are all individual in their quest to serve their god.
So far they are just spreading like fire across the world. If Muslims don't love their neighbors what do you suggest we do about it?
IOW, in your view you agree with the al Qa'eda and Hamas and ISIL guys, i.e., that "collective punishment" is legitimate ...
I agree that we can't afford to be collectively punished anymore. If you don't support ridding the world of terror than step aside and watch like the rest of them. But there is still responsibility that comes with watching the fight and not doing anything to help those getting killed.
Terrorist only survive because people support them in great numbers. If they didn't, we wouldn't have it. Tell me, what plan do you have for ridding the world of terror in this war without the support of your fellow Muslims? Will you just ignore those who support their actions because they aren't pulling the bomb cord?
Screaming kill Americans is different than killing them but egging people on to do what you wish done is just as bad as doing it yourself.
She asked me what I meant by needing Muslims to join us in the fight against terror, I gave examples of how many silently back terror and the killing of westerners as a solution. It's quite a few. When they stop, terror will stop. Until then we will continue to see carnage. I don't agree in harming anyone, but I do think I have the right to ask for their support against terror instead of ignoring that they support terror and wish me and my country death.
I imagine you'll agree with anyone who doesn't want refugees are collectively punishing them. http://www.thenation.com/article/eur...ve-punishment/
Who's to blame, oh yes, all of us who are concerned. Not the terrorist who blew them out of their country. Yes, I got it. So, instead of everyone helping them get their country back we will just relocate them like we did the Jews. Yes, that worked out great.
I agree that we can't afford to be collectively punished anymore. If you don't support ridding the world of terror than step aside and watch like the rest of them. But there is still responsibility that comes with watching the fight and not doing anything to help those getting killed.
Terrorist only survive because people support them in great numbers. If they didn't, we wouldn't have it. Tell me, what plan do you have for ridding the world of terror in this war without the support of your fellow Muslims? Will you just ignore those who support their actions because they aren't pulling the bomb cord?
Screaming kill Americans is different than killing them but egging people on to do what you wish done is just as bad as doing it yourself.
She asked me what I meant by needing Muslims to join us in the fight against terror, I gave examples of how many silently back terror and the killing of westerners as a solution. It's quite a few. When they stop, terror will stop. Until then we will continue to see carnage. I don't agree in harming anyone, but I do think I have the right to ask for their support against terror instead of ignoring that they support terror and wish me and my country death.
I imagine you'll agree with anyone who doesn't want refugees are collectively punishing them. European Countries
Who's to blame, oh yes, all of us who are concerned. Not the terrorist who blew them out of their country. Yes, I got it. So, instead of everyone helping them get their country back we will just relocate them like we did the Jews. Yes, that worked out great.
I suppose we COULD just nuke the Middle East … ???
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
