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Actually, if the 'bible' were 'true', then your statement would not be true.
See 1st Thessalonians, chapter 4, verses 13 through 18. (There are additional books, chapters and verses that could be referenced, but one will do.)
The dead [are supposed to] 'sleep' until the 'second coming'.
How about keeping theological debates out of this thread. If you want to debate me on the issue of life after death according to the Bible then take it to the Christianity forum.
". . . the Bible clearly teaches that if we know Christ, we are safely in God’s hands forever when we die, and that nothing “in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:39).
Does this mean we immediately enter heaven when we die? My own study of the Bible has convinced me that we do. This is reflected in many passages in the Bible. Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies” (John 11:25). The Apostle Paul wrote, “I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far” (Philippians 1:23). The Bible also says, “Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands” (2 Corinthians 5:1). . ."
My dad died at almost 96 and they will both go to the same place. My dad was not a believer and my dad and I had something in common. RIP Billy Graham.
How about keeping theological debates out of this thread. If you want to debate me on the issue of life after death according to the Bible then take it to the Christianity forum.
It is not a 'theological' debate, I made no argument as to the validity of the reference material, as this is certainly not the place for it. Obviously, the manner of my presentation permits [some] readers to infer my position on the validity of it but that is not the point. The point was/is that your statement is at odds with the reference material.
Neither did I make any issue as to the validity of 'life after death', the issue was strictly as to 'timing', and the variance of your statement with the quote(s) from the reference material. My argument would remain the same, even if I were to stipulate that the reference material is entirely true and correct. If you cannot see that, then I fear that your offer to debate an even more complicated matter would prove entirely fruitless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie45
This is the answer Billy Graham's gave about what happens when we die:
". . . the Bible clearly teaches that if we know Christ, we are safely in God’s hands forever when we die, and that nothing “in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:39).
Does this mean we immediately enter heaven when we die? My own study of the Bible has convinced me that we do. This is reflected in many passages in the Bible. Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies” (John 11:25). The Apostle Paul wrote, “I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far” (Philippians 1:23). The Bible also says, “Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands” (2 Corinthians 5:1). . ."
None of those quotes from the reference material repudiate the concept of an interval of 'sleep', or a delay, despite the quoted assertion that they do. Those quotes do not support the assertion, they do not reference the timing of the 'event', did you not read what you posted?
I'd love to know how much tax free money that man raised over his lifetime......Its got to be hundreds of millions!
And as a respected man of God, he used it for good, not to embezzle or live "high on the hog" as implied. All monies that were tax free to the glory of God was approved by the government, BTW.
RIP. Billy Graham. You were well respected and revered by many. Thank you for all you did for the masses over the many generations of life.
If you bother to open the link to that article, then you can see it, and if you doubt the veracity of that article, you can find a fairly large number of news articles that reported the same thing. If you feel that he was a "Godly" man, you are entitled to that opinion, just as I am entitled to believe that he was a phony and a bigot as a result of his own words--which were memorialized on tape when he did not know that he was being recorded.
What somebody says or does when he thinks that nobody is watching or listening is the real measure of that person's moral compass.
This is my opinion only. The comment above applies to today's world. Back in the day it was not wrong as it is today. A totally different time and mindset. I am sure he made his peace with the Lord and with all he ministered to. If he did not, then HE has to answer to God, and we may never know. But I give him a pass because the times and generations back then were totally different than today. They cannot be compared fairly. (BTW, I am responding blindly to the above post. I did not read or hear about it and choose not to).
Actually, if the 'bible' were 'true', then your statement would not be true.
See 1st Thessalonians, chapter 4, verses 13 through 18. (There are additional books, chapters and verses that could be referenced, but one will do.)
The dead [are supposed to] 'sleep' until the 'second coming'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
How about keeping theological debates out of this thread. If you want to debate me on the issue of life after death according to the Bible then take it to the Christianity forum.
YOU, Mike555, were the one who initiated the "Billy Graham is now with the Lord" statement. Why start a new thread based on a popular (though incorrect) Christian belief that the 'righteous dead' go immediately to heaven at death? You are simply being corrected.
And, Zymer IS correct.
If we're to believe the Bible then it's made abundantly clear in any number of scriptures that the dead (whether 'righteous' or not) are 'asleep' in their graves until 'the second coming'. So, according to the Bible - and not according to me or Zymer - Billy Graham IS 'sleeping' in his grave until 'resurrection morning'. Even the guy you quoted - Paul - believed that the dead 'sleep' in their graves until the time of Jesus' coming.
It is not a 'theological' debate, I made no argument as to the validity of the reference material, as this is certainly not the place for it. Obviously, the manner of my presentation permits [some] readers to infer my position on the validity of it but that is not the point. The point was/is that your statement is at odds with the reference material.
Neither did I make any issue as to the validity of 'life after death', the issue was strictly as to 'timing', and the variance of your statement with the quote(s) from the reference material. My argument would remain the same, even if I were to stipulate that the reference material is entirely true and correct. If you cannot see that, then I fear that your offer to debate an even more complicated matter would prove entirely fruitless.
Again, take it to the Christianity forum and I'll take it up with you there.
YOU, Mike555, were the one who initiated the "Billy Graham is now with the Lord" statement. Why start a new thread based on a popular (though incorrect) Christian belief that the 'righteous dead' go immediately to heaven at death? You are simply being corrected.
And, Zymer IS correct.
If we're to believe the Bible then it's made abundantly clear in any number of scriptures that the dead (whether 'righteous' or not) are 'asleep' in their graves until 'the second coming'. So, according to the Bible - and not according to me or Zymer - Billy Graham IS 'sleeping' in his grave until 'resurrection morning'. Even the guy you quoted - Paul - believed that the dead 'sleep' in their graves until the time of Jesus' coming.
Take it to the Christianity forum. I'm not going to debate the issue of what the Bible says about life after death on this thread.
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All monies that were tax free to the glory of God was approved by the government, BTW.
