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LA metro follows federal guidelines for the amount of space available to elderly and disabled. Nothing changes without regulations. I asked, today and directly.
They are also worried about the woman, since this has never happened before. It is “not” usual, or normal to them. They are asking the public (anyone) to come forward, because they want to be sure she is safe.
It really did seem she must have some form of dementia, and it sounds like she was not trying to keep a disabled seat, but was confused and agitated, and quite elderly.
Some compassion “might” have helped move her, or maybe not. But threats did not help obviously. Heck, my own grandfather at 80 would have threaten you with his cane if you wanted him to move from a place he wanted to be.
Even the man who took the video was not stating she was acting entitled. The outrage soooo misplaced.
The guy who had to wait for the bus wouldn’t face this again, because it was a one off. But if they didn’t have a shade shelter at the bust stop, that would be another story.
Bottom line, after I have spoken to no less than 8 people today in regards to this matter afte KTLA5, and LA Metro, ADA civil rights, dept of justice:
We baby boomers are coming along and many of us will be disabled (with or without wheelchairs). Think about it folks, change needs to start now. Otherwise young and old will not fit in those sections.
I am now waiting to hear what the new federal guidelines might be when comes to adding one more spot per bus. Hopefully this will be something already in the works, I should hear back next week.
For anyone else wanted to be involved in changing this for the future start with ADA.gov, it will tell you where to go for further info. And / US Department of transport.
I was so impressed that I was able to speak to everyone but the last dept (I had to leave a message). Feels good to be an American today, asking for information, and receiving it.
If you want to keep complaining about entitled old people (or millennial, actually anything divisive) then back to your regularly scheduled whine-fest.
Thanks. As someone that's been disabled since my early 30's, I may not need public transportation now but may in the future. I have a cane and would have gladly moved for the man in the wheel chair
Speaking as a disabled person, I find it really offensive to be told I need to carry a placard around and pull it out to proclaim my disability to everyone in sight. I, and many other disabled people, work very hard every day to minimize the effects of our disability so we can take care of ourselves and not inconvenience anyone else. Maybe we should all wear scarlet "D's" on our chests as well.
Honestly, it doesn't bother me if someone wanted to see my card saying I'm legally disabled and qualify for handicapped parking. It's in my wallet like it should be next to my license
Why make every single issue about race? Two human beings regardless of color. This woman was not making life hell for anyone. What does people of color being made to move to the back of the bus during Rosa Park's lifetime have to do with this incident? What if it had been two white people - what difference would it have made? One would still be sitting in a wheelchair waiting to board the bus and the other would be sitting there refusing to give up her seat.
The woman, like so many others have sensibly pointed out, may have been disabled in someway herself and even if she wasn't, those seats are for the disabled and SENIORS. She was not legally obligated to give up her seat, but it would have been nice if she had been gracious about it and done so. Who made those passengers the "bus police?" They had no right to berate the woman and threaten her.
The man in the wheelchair would have had to wait for the next bus if both wheelchair areas were occupied and this situation was no different: one spot was already taken by a wheelchair-bound passenger and the other spot by a senior. It is unlikely that the next bus would have both areas occupied, but that is a chance you take when you ride public transportation.
My opinion as a disabled person, the wheelchair spots should be for wheelchair needed. Period. If a wheelchair gets on the person there moves. End of story. I hope at some point they change the signs
The disabilities are all equal, and the space is first come first serve. The bus driver violated the ADA by even requesting her to move.
Sorry but I'm disabled and do not feel they're all equal because they're not. Someone in a chair is worst off then me with a cane. They're limited to where they can sit, I am not; although my legs need to be able to move but I don't ride public transportation nor do I fly any more.
If someone is able to walk, ride the bus and get off, get to where they're going they should move for the person who that seat is designed for.
I'm sorry, just because someone is elderly doesn't mean they deserve the seat either. If they're mobile they should move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
I was always taught to treat a woman like a lady, unless she proved to be otherwise. This individual is far from even a decent human being, much less a lady.
Not all of us, as I am only going by what I witnessed on the video. Granted we cannot know if she has some disability or not, as I doubt you must present evidence of such to sit in a particular seat. However the guy in the wheelchair was clearly disabled. Thus if this woman is ambulatory and able to tow a cart around with her stuff, she clearly could have moved to another seat, thereby allowing the only space on the bus this guy needed to be transported safely.
Here is an example of even genuinely handicapped people making allowances for others;
There are two guys who are in wheelchairs and they regularly play tennis. It is a small park and there are only two handicapped spaces which they both take on the nights they play. One night I noticed that Steve was there but his car was not parked in one of the spaces. We got to talking and he said he left the space open for a buddy he invited to come out and watch them play. He had a degenerative disease that required him to have a fully motorized chair and special van.
Since Steve was a scrapper he could muscle his chair out the passenger side and hop in so long as the regular spaces were of a decent size. But his friend did not have that option so he left the space open for him since he needed it more.
When the guy showed up with his aid, you could see he needed a special lift to handle all the weight and size of the motorized chair. I remember thinking how difficult it must be for his friend to get around, even compared to Steve. Obviously Steve felt the same way and was decent enough to go through a little inconvenience to give someone in worse shape, the ability to enjoy some of their life, despite being significantly disabled.
This individual on the bus didn't possess one ounce of the decency the tennis player has as a human being.
`
Agree with this. He did the right thing for his friend
Sorry but I'm disabled and do not feel they're all equal because they're not. Someone in a chair is worst off then me with a cane. They're limited to where they can sit, I am not; although my legs need to be able to move but I don't ride public transportation nor do I fly any more.
If someone is able to walk, ride the bus and get off, get to where they're going they should move for the person who that seat is designed for.
I'm sorry, just because someone is elderly doesn't mean they deserve the seat either. If they're mobile they should move.
Agree with this. He did the right thing for his friend
My statement was based on US law, not on your personal opinion.
My statement was based on US law, not on your personal opinion.
Your statement is an effort to argue endlessly based purely on speculation, not facts in evidence.
Regardless, even if the woman did have some unseen disability, she was clearly not limited to that one spot on the bus.
Clearly the other guy clearly was.
Since public transportation is there to try and meet the needs of all citizens (especially the poor and disabled), those needs should be titrated based on greater needs for some, and everyone still gets to use the system.
To assert that an able-bodied person with some minor malady (or age related criteria), can deny access to the one spot a severally disabled person needs to use a service, is the antithesis of what the ADA was created for in the first place.
If you cannot see that, you are either dense or being intentionally obtuse.
My statement was based on US law, not on your personal opinion.
I understand that but as a disabled person myself I disagree with them. We have no clue if this woman was even disabled. I wish the video would have played. Gonna try on my tablet.
Any idea of who wrote the guidelines? Were they disabled? Just because it's by the association doesn't mean they're disabled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
Your statement is an effort to argue endlessly based purely on speculation, not facts in evidence.
Regardless, even if the woman did have some unseen disability, she was clearly not limited to that one spot on the bus.
Clearly the other guy clearly was.
Since public transportation is there to try and meet the needs of all citizens (especially the poor and disabled), those needs should be titrated based on greater needs for some, and everyone still gets to use the system.
To assert that an able-bodied person with some minor malady (or age related criteria), can deny access to the one spot a severally disabled person needs to use a service, is the antithesis of what the ADA was created for in the first place.
If you cannot see that, you are either dense or being intentionally obtuse.
`
Agree. I think it sucks they guy was made to wait in the heat.
The disabilities are all equal, and the space is first come first serve. The bus driver violated the ADA by even requesting her to move.
Wrong. Completely false.
From the Los Angeles Metro website:
Securement areas – Metro policy requires that the operator ask other passengers sitting in the wheelchair securement area to move when a wheelchair passenger boards. The operator will request other passengers to give up their seats, but cannot force them to move.
(As it says, the operator cannot FORCE someone to move, as that could get quite ugly and risky, but the policy above, along with the most basic notion of human decency, would imply an expectation that the wheelchair be allowed in the Securement Area.)
I get angry every time of think of this situation.
Last edited by kayanne; 08-27-2018 at 12:51 PM..
Reason: Typo
From the Los Angeles Metro website:
Securement areas – Metro policy requires that the operator ask other passengers sitting in the wheelchair securement area to move when a wheelchair passenger boards. The operator will request other passengers to give up their seats, but cannot force them to move.
(As it says, the operator cannot FORCE someone to move, as that could get quite ugly and risky, but the policy above, along with the most basic notion of human decency, would imply an expectation that the wheelchair be allowed in the Securement Area.)
I get angry every time of think of this situation.
Other passengers does not mean other disabled or senior passengers sitting in designated seats. They have to comply with the ADA.
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