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What's a fling backwards thing? Can you explain? I'm not familiar with baby mannerisms.
She was trying to bang on the glass like she does at her brothers hockey games. Only there wasn’t glass and the forward momentum took over. Grandpa also thought there was glass there.
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
She was trying to bang on the glass like she does at her brothers hockey games. Only there wasn’t glass and the forward momentum took over. Grandpa also thought there was glass there.
Anyone who has been on a cruise ship (or any boat) would know that there is no way not to notice when a window is open. Cruise ship windows are cloudy from sea spray. You would probably also feel a good breeze on the 11th deck. The railing is very close to the window.
The grandfather made a horrible lapse in judgement that resulted in the death of the child. The cruise line is not at fault.
If the cruise line is held responsible, then they should no longer allow children in the pool area. Or on deck. Or in a balcony cabin. Or really any where they could be hoisted up and then fall overboard.
I feel really bad for the family. But common sense should prevail.
EDIT to add: It is possible she was walking on the railing, banging on the glass with one hand while holding her grandfather's hand. She came upon an open window and went to bang on it and momentum took over. G Pa wan't paying attention so he was unable to counter the momentum.
She was trying to bang on the glass like she does at her brothers hockey games. Only there wasn’t glass and the forward momentum took over. Grandpa also thought there was glass there.
I wonder what she was standing on. Neither the railing nor the window sill was secure footing. Even if the window had been shut, it wouldn't have been a safe place for a baby to be standing. You would need to be holding on to her every second. Especially if, as all the reports insinuate, you're expecting that she might lunge forward to bang on the glass. If someone can make a case that the cruise ship should not have had any open windows, someone else can make an equally valid case that Grandpa was negligent for setting a toddler up on a narrow, 3-foot-high ledge and letting go, whether the window was closed or not.
Anyone who has been on a cruise ship (or any boat) would know that there is no way not to notice when a window is open. Cruise ship windows are cloudy from sea spray. You would probably also feel a good breeze on the 11th deck. The railing is very close to the window.
The grandfather made a horrible lapse in judgement that resulted in the death of the child. The cruise line is not at fault.
If the cruise line is held responsible, then they should no longer allow children in the pool area. Or on deck. Or in a balcony cabin. Or really any where they could be hoisted up and then fall overboard.
I feel really bad for the family. But common sense should prevail.
EDIT to add: It is possible she was walking on the railing, banging on the glass with one hand while holding her grandfather's hand. She came upon an open window and went to bang on it and momentum took over. G Pa wan't paying attention so he was unable to counter the momentum.
The handrail was designed and installed at a height for adults to hold onto if the adult needs to help avoid slipping and to hold on to while looking out the windows. It was not designed as an infant seat and thus was misused by the grandfather. He had lacked good judgement sadly when he placed the child on the rail.
What's a fling backwards thing? Can you explain? I'm not familiar with baby mannerisms.
Ever held a small animal that wants down NOW, and they wriggle and try to jump from your arms? Young toddlers and sometimes babies tend to have a similar type of jerking out of your arms response when they want to be put down or when they want to be elsewhere. If you aren't prepared for it, it can be easy to lose your grip on the child when they do that, especially if you're holding them by placing your arm under their bottom without the other arm supporting their back. https://www.wikihow.com/images/thumb...-Version-2.jpg
That's like walking across Hoover Dam with a baby in your arms and leaning over to take a look. Unless the baby is harnessed in with a carrier, then to me it's simply irresponsible caring for a baby to but them at risk like that for that one time something might happen. Here it did. Sad of course, but that family will never be the same because of it.
Did you read your link, maybe it was a play are adjacent to the kids pool that had the glass instead of just hand rails but as the report states: "Winkleman said Chloe Wiegandwas playing with her grandfather in the “kid’s water zone” on the ship as it was docked in Puerto Rico when she asked him to lift her to a wall of windows lining the play area."
The open windows are clearly visible and were placed at a height that a small child wouldn't access them, in fact they are above the safety rail that appears to be a height of 4' same as the rails around the ship. It was only the family member lifting her and allowing her to bang on the glass that created the unsafe situation, not the ship.
Anyone who has been on a cruise ship (or any boat) would know that there is no way not to notice the window is open. Cruise ship windows are cloudy from sea spray. You would probably also feel a good breeze on the 11th deck. The railing is very close to the window.
The grandfather made a horrible lapse in judgement that resulted in the death of the child. The cruise line is not at fault.
If the cruise line is held responsible, then they should no longer allow children in the pool area. Or on deck. Or in a balcony cabin. Or really any where they could be hoisted up and then fall overboard.
I feel really bad for the family. But common sense should prevail.
I agree the cruise line is not responsible but we have to remember this ship was in dock with the family newly arrived. The windows may well have been closed for cleaning for the salt spray does build up. Deck 11 is open to the outdoors and there often isn't that much of a breeze in the tropics. The window are intended to be opened but with passengers still arriving only one was (according to both the family and the Port Authority).
We've only taken a few cruises, with the Freedom of the Seas the last ship. Many when they first arrive explore the ship, taking in what is designed to be a visually stimulating environment. The human brain only processes one input at a time (albeit very rapidly). In a "normal" setting, the grandfather (and now also the grandmother?) may well have processed the clues that this was not a closed window but in THAT setting at that time they missed it.
Likewise, I believe the little girl was 18 months old. That's a horrible age to manage away from home. They are mobile (and fast) but have minimal impulse control. Passengers were still arriving with the elevators used for those carrying their hand luggage and stairs the main way of moving between decks. They probably did not have a stroller (are they allowed on deck, not sure I've seen one or maybe there just aren't many of that age)? The little girl may well have been over-stimulated. In that setting, I can "get" someone plopping her on a railing up against closed windows to distract her with an activity she enjoyed. Without this accident, no one would have batted an eye.
What I find it hard to believe is that the grandfather (1) did something very stupid (placing a child on a narrow railing in front of an window known to be open, (2) THEN "slipped" while simply standing there (this apparently the cruise ship version) AND (3) simultaneously let go of the child. Sure maybe if he was drunk but no party is alleging alcohol was involved. That window wall is curved with the railing the farthest from the wall at the window height. There's a good chance that if the above happened the child simply would have fallen down to the floor not out the window. She probably was reaching towards the "window" with the grandfather not restraining her movement in that direction even though he continued to hold or balance her on the narrow rail.
This was a tragic accident that happened because a whole bunch of factors came together in just the wrong combination. I agree that the windows are not inherently "child-dangerous," not in the least. It's very sad.
Last edited by EveryLady; 07-10-2019 at 09:03 AM..
If you cannot differentiate between an open and closed window then you are an idiot and should be removed off this planet. The family is looking to blame everyone but the grandfather who totally F-ed up. It's no body else's fault but his own.
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