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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 6 days ago)
35,627 posts, read 17,961,729 times
Reputation: 50650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
This family is getting more ridiculous by the day. All their little onboard experiment shows is that Anello had to place Chloe over a rather wide gap and block to get to the window - the railing. So she was placed OVER the railing, which is obviously there as a safety measure, and it still isn’t grandpa’s fault. He basically stood her on the window sill and their defense is “there should have been warning the windows open!” Yeah ok. Because THAT was the problem.
I find these photo re-enactments compelling, and they mirror my experiments in my home. I'm 5'5", so shorter than grandpa, but there is no way with the bar being nearly chest height, and me being 21 inches away from the window, could I stick my head out the window, without my feet completely leaving the ground and supporting myself on the guardrail to stick my head out.
What I would REALLY like to see is an impartial agency doing these same mock up pics, trying to truthfully explore what happened. The cruise ship claiming one thing, and the attorney for the family countering with another thing, isn't really the best way to arrive at the truth.
The 57-year-old medic could race down the pier toward the fallen child but the 51-year-old grandpa is "elderly." Oh, brother.
And how is it that the video shows Grandpa's entire upper body leaning over the railing when the guy doing the re-enactment can barely get his head past it? Something's wrong with this picture.
His hips were jutted too far out in the doll-less pic.
It's when they took the 3rd pic (the one distanced away) that you see he does have the height to actually have made contact with window/lean out. I had to roll my eyes at the whole 7" lift up for that contact, that particular section of window since it's angled is further away than (his) eye level. Why didn't they just take a pic, with his hips against the railing and leaned over and just measured how supposedly far his head would've been from the window?
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 6 days ago)
35,627 posts, read 17,961,729 times
Reputation: 50650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkpoe
His hips were jutted too far out in the doll-less pic.
It's when they took the 3rd pic (the one distanced away) that you see he does have the height to actually have made contact with window/lean out. I had to roll my eyes at the whole 7" lift up for that contact, that particular section of window since it's angled is further away than (his) eye level. Why didn't they just take a pic, with his hips against the railing and leaned over and just measured how supposedly far his head would've been from the window?
That's why I want an impartial agency to review this. It seems very simple to get at the actual truth, and present very clear depictions of what that incident would have looked like.
I have a problem with the "near identical height" of the man standing in for the grandfather.
Near identical doesn't cut it for me.....does that mean the stand in is "only" 2 inches shorter? 3 inches?....and...."similar build" could also change someone's reach significantly.
If they want to recreate the incident they should use a stand in with the exact same height and build as the grandfather.
I also have a problem with the cruise line's plans to "renovate" the deck. Not a good look if you ask me. They should postpone any renovations until after the trial in case the jury is taken to the site.....which I think is critical in this case.
I think every single juror should have to walk up to that same open window so they can decide for themselves if anyone could have mistaken it for closed......or if anyone in their right mind would think it's a good idea to hoist an infant over that rail.
Here's the thing, there is no law that says this window or other windows should be closed on that ship. This was a tragic mistake by the grandfather. I totally feel for him and the baby's family but to bring a lawsuit for his mistake I do not think is right.
There is certainly a wall of protection for the family including the grandfather on this thread. I can understand this response because they are suffering the most out of all of us with the loss of Chloe. I don't believe the videos support their position in this case but I don't agree with the cruise liner releasing the videos. I am wondering if supporters of the family and grandfather believe they should continue with the law suit.
This family is getting more ridiculous by the day. All their little onboard experiment shows is that Anello had to place Chloe over a rather wide gap and block to get to the window - the railing. So she was placed OVER the railing, which is obviously there as a safety measure, and it still isn’t grandpa’s fault. He basically stood her on the window sill and their defense is “there should have been warning the windows open!” Yeah ok. Because THAT was the problem.
Thanks for the link. I do agree that the video released is somewhat deceptive. I also would have liked to see a measuring tape in the photos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53
I have a problem with the "near identical height" of the man standing in for the grandfather.
Near identical doesn't cut it for me.....does that mean the stand in is "only" 2 inches shorter? 3 inches?....and...."similar build" could also change someone's reach significantly.
If they want to recreate the incident they should use a stand in with the exact same height and build as the grandfather.
I also have a problem with the cruise line's plans to "renovate" the deck. Not a good look if you ask me. They should postpone any renovations until after the trial in case the jury is taken to the site.....which I think is critical in this case.
I think every single juror should have to walk up to that same open window so they can decide for themselves if anyone could have mistaken it for closed......or if anyone in their right mind would think it's a good idea to hoist an infant over that rail.
The grandfathers lawyer would have more of a case if he showed the guy and the grandfather standing together. I believe the grandfather is a few inches taller. This is looking at the pics of the guy in the article above, then switching to the videos in my links below.
I do agree that the cruise line should release all of the video to the grandfathers side to at least put this to bed already so we all can move on. I'd like to see clear on video of exactly what he did, not that fuzzy video from the left bar side that cuts to the right side of the room where it looks like he leans his top body out the window; but watching it again after seeing those pictures, that wood bar is somewhat in his way.
I still say it wasn't the 1st time he held her there. She ran straight to that open window, not any of the closed ones.
The grandfather obviously isn't a frail guy at 51. I couldn't lift my granddaughter like that at 51 or now at 54 with my bad back. I can barely get her in and out of the car seat at almost 3
He is still to blame in my mind, even with the new doubts I have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr
A friend of mine caught this article. He's crazy if he doesn't take the plea deal. If he keeps denying it then it goes to blame the parents because now he's medically impaired somehow; the parents never should have let him have Chloe unsupervised.
I find these photo re-enactments compelling, and they mirror my experiments in my home. I'm 5'5", so shorter than grandpa, but there is no way with the bar being nearly chest height, and me being 21 inches away from the window, could I stick my head out the window, without my feet completely leaving the ground and supporting myself on the guardrail to stick my head out.
What I would REALLY like to see is an impartial agency doing these same mock up pics, trying to truthfully explore what happened. The cruise ship claiming one thing, and the attorney for the family countering with another thing, isn't really the best way to arrive at the truth.
You mean like law enforcement...that kind of agency?! They did. They were the ones who seized the videos. They were the ones that analyzed them for content, reliability and authenticity. They were the ones that concluded that they could meet the "beyond a shadow of a doubt" burden of proof required in bringing criminal charges against this man and they settled on negligent homicide.
He was offered a plea deal where he would get no jail time and minimal probation and supervision. This seems very reasonable under the circumstances. He has so far not accepted it. His family should be encouraging him to do so and put his behind him but to do so would jeopardize, if not end, their chance of financial recovery against the cruise line.
I bet that if the cruise line succeeds on their motion to dismiss, grandpa accepts the plea deal. If they don't, and the lawsuit survives, grandpa goes to trial, risking a jail sentence and the cost of his defense, which could easily reach six figures.
So...what are you saying? Are you saying he couldn't have leaned the child out the window? If so, she wouldn't have fallen out the window when he let go, she would have fallen straight down to the floor.
Or are you saying he stood there for 34 seconds slowly inching her forward toward the window sill, trying to get her hands to contact the nonexistent glass?
Watch the video. He's leaning over the rail at the waist. However high it might be to you, he was able to lean his entire body from the waist up over it.
In fact, as I've said before, and now all the more after looking at the photo Suzy just linked, I believe he was not only leaning completely over the rail but had his hands on the OPEN window sill. That's the only place his hands could have been; they weren't on the rail as he leaned over.
Yep. You can see her run over to the railing, him plodding along behind her.
At 43:24, you can see him lift her up off of the floor, put her up and over the railing, and lean forward. She was not standing on the railing like the family said before. Seconds later, you see everyone react.
The fact that he stood there for a few seconds, leaning way over the railing, before he picked her up and put her over the railing, convinces me that he in no way did not know that damn window was open. Before he picked her up, he was leaning way over that railing himself.
There is no way that this was the cruise line's fault. I do not understand how some can't see this is entirely the fault of the grandfather.
39:50 shows it even better. You can see him lift her up, lift her over the railing and out the window. He's leaning way over that railing. If you look at the photos just before that bit, (go back to 37:46), and then watch 39:50 again, and then watch 43:24 again, you'll see that there is no way he didn't know that window was open. He was leaning out of it himself before he picked her up, put her over, and leaned her out. Stupidity is not the fault of the cruise line. That's all on him.
Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 01-24-2020 at 07:33 AM..
I find these photo re-enactments compelling, and they mirror my experiments in my home. I'm 5'5", so shorter than grandpa, but there is no way with the bar being nearly chest height, and me being 21 inches away from the window, could I stick my head out the window, without my feet completely leaving the ground and supporting myself on the guardrail to stick my head out.
What I would REALLY like to see is an impartial agency doing these same mock up pics, trying to truthfully explore what happened. The cruise ship claiming one thing, and the attorney for the family countering with another thing, isn't really the best way to arrive at the truth.
Whether he stuck his head out is a separate issue than what I said though. In one reenactment photo the doll is seemingly standing on the window sill, beyond the railing. He held her out over the railing.
Iirc when watching the video a good portion of his upper body disappeared as if he was leaning far forward. Quality is grainy but I think photos re-enacting the situation can be manipulated. What they do show is that the doll is placed with its feet on the window sill. Since they did that in re-enactment I can imagine that’s what he did with Chloe. Put her beyond the protective railing and onto the window sill. Horrible judgment.
And regardless whether he put his head out the window or not, I believe he knew it was open. I believe he chose that window because it was open. Chloe could have banged on the glass on her own on the ground because the windows run from the floor. I don’t buy his story, I think he wanted to show her the view and just made a horrible decision. Or even if he did want her to bang on the glass, he made a horrible decision because she could have done it on the ground. No need to lift her.
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