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But coconut fat isn't a "good fat", the only group that suggests that is the one that represents the coconut industry.
Dr. Mary Enig, UMD Biochemist, former faculty research associate with the Lipids Research Group who has far more research experience than non-scientist MDs like Ornish, is part of the vast coconut industry conspiracy? Before you think she's a quack or shill of some sort, you do realize she warned people of the dangers of trans fats during the same time that the vegetarian lobbyists were pushing them to replace coconut oil in movie popcorn?
But Ornish who pimped out 4x the amount of books making PT Barnum-esque claims like "How you can reverse heart disease" on the title is legit? Because it worked for him, and since n=1 is a legitimate methodology along with correlation = causation on conflated information with non-cohort groups, then it's all good.
LOL
(In before the anti-Weston A Price foundation strawman conspiracy theories)
SCIENCE IS ALL ABOUT FIGURING OUT HOW WE ARE WRONG AS SAUL PERLMUTTER HAS SAID.
Many people on here will have their belief based feathers ruffled..... That is too bad... Tough crap !!!!!! The greatest gift of science is that it makes us UNCOMFORTABLE and forces us to challenge deeply ingrained beliefs.
THERE NEVER WAS ANY EVIDENCE SATURATED FAT IS CAUSAL IN CAD....
Not really, when people do this they pick bad photos of one person and good photos of another. But Mark Sisson is more muscular than Ornish, but Ornish is a doctor and researcher and Sisson is a former athlete so that is to be expected. And, well, Dean Ornish isn't that attractive but that has nothing to do with diet.
Caldwell Esselstyn is in his 80's and advocates a similar type of diet:
I'd compare him to a low-carbohydrate guru, but I'm not aware of any that are 80+. Atkins would have been in this 80's now but he died over 10 years ago with heart disease. The two knew each other.
Dr. Esselstyn is a great man and very humble. I have the greatest respect for his integrity and dedication to his patients. He sets the standard of patient care He is a fabulous human being.This is very rare among doctors.
But, unfortunately, he reasons from belief. Most medical doctors are not scientists.
Most scientific ideas are wrong .
Most experiments are wrong, too, the first time they are done.
These points are extremely important to know and they are not conveyed by professional scientists to the public often enough- if at all.
Dr. Esselstyn's work has not been replicated. Even more importantly, it has not been tested using MANY MULTIPLE DIFFERENT INDEPENDENT METHODS/TECHNIQUES to test it and to see if they all lead to the same result or point in the same direction. Such was how Dark Matter was confirmed.Dr. Esselstyn used statin drugs, too, which confounds results.
It is worth noting ONLY IVUS can currently give a true picture of arterial wall damage. Coronary Angiography MISSES A TON of plaque and is outdated Woolly Mammoth technology.
You CAN have DIFFUSELY DISEASED ARTERIES with very little to no narrowing at all . Dr. Esselstyn did not use IVUS either. Our undersstanding is far greater about coronary heart disease than when Dr. Esselstyn's study was done. We NOW know CAD is a disease of the VESSEL WALL, NOT the lumen.
In science, the more important your discovery, the more important it is to verify it.
In science, the more important your discovery, the more important it is to verify it.
Ancel Keys didn't need to do this. Just get his picture on Time magazine and have a couple of Pritikin diet politicians as subscribers such as McGovern and you have the confirmation bias momentum going. Before you know it, the AHA is licensing its label on heart healthy foods like Cocoa Puffs.
Hain natural foods claims their canola oil is pressed and not solvent-extracted at all, so I imagine there are other companies that also offer pressed canola oil as well. Olive oil is almost always expeller pressed, not solvent extracted. Many seed oils are expeller pressed, and most oils made by manufacturers that target health food customers also provide expeller or cold-pressed cooking and salad oils.
You probably didn't know that, but now you do.
No, I didn't know that about canola oil. So the little bit of canola oil I unwittingly ingest while eating out is less bad for me than I thought. That's good! Olive oil I'm not surprised is almost always expeller pressed as you say; I've never avoided high-quality olive oil.
So, I'll continue to eat saturated fat and olive oil (and avocados) depending on the situation (time of day, what else I'm eating with it, etc.), and avoid canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, etc.
No, I didn't know that about canola oil. So the little bit of canola oil I unwittingly ingest while eating out is less bad for me than I thought. That's good! Olive oil I'm not surprised is almost always expeller pressed as you say; I've never avoided high-quality olive oil.
So, I'll continue to eat saturated fat and olive oil (and avocados) depending on the situation (time of day, what else I'm eating with it, etc.), and avoid canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, etc.
That is good. I avoid canola ,corn and soybean , too. Canola oil is terrible for the thyroid. Humans evolved in the tropics under African sunlight. I stick to tropical or near tropical fats like olive oil and coconut oil. I occasionally use fish and eat Brazil nuts from the Amazon .
All you need to know about trusting things like RDA and the sudden "ZOMG dietary saturated fat will kill you!
But it was low-fat! Don't forget kids, 300-375g of carbs is your RDA. Load up on those hunger pain creating empty calories and don't forget your skim milk to go with it!
Regardless of the RDA, saturated fat is not an essential nutrient. As mentioned there are only two essential fats, omega-6 and omega-3, and you'll find this information in any nutrition textbook.
I don't think they should be able to put the heart associations mark on cereals with high amounts of sugar, the food industry is taking advantage of that program.
[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by saigafreak
Dr. Mary Enig, UMD Biochemist, former faculty research associate with the Lipids Research Group who has far more research experience than non-scientist MDs like Ornish, is part of the vast coconut industry conspiracy?
I didn't say anything about a coconut conspiracy. But we don't know whether the saturated fat in coconut have differential effects than the saturated fat in animal based products so anybody that claims, loudly, that coconut oil is a "good fat" is going well beyond the available evidence.
But more important, contrary to what you suggested, the saturated fat in coconut is of a different type than in animal products and avocados are low in saturated fat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saigafreak
Because it worked for him, and since n=1 is a legitimate methodology along with correlation = causation on conflated information with non-cohort groups, then it's all good.
Ornish has conducted a number of studies, his studies aren't based on himself. You seem to have a strange relationship with reality, you keep making up things as you go.
Humans evolved in the tropics under African sunlight. I stick to tropical or near tropical fats like olive oil and coconut oil. I occasionally use fish and eat Brazil nuts from the Amazon .
Humans, by no means, evolved in the tropics. Humans evolved in the African grass lands where nuts and seeds would have been rather common and things like coconut absent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSneedman
Dr. Esselstyn's work has not been replicated. Even more importantly, it has not been tested using MANY MULTIPLE DIFFERENT INDEPENDENT METHODS/TECHNIQUES to test it and to see if they all lead to the same result or point in the same direction. Such was how Dark Matter was confirmed.Dr. Esselstyn used statin drugs, too, which confounds results.
His research has been duplicated, for example, by Dean Ornish. There are other studies that show similar results as well, but not all restrict 100% of animal based foods like his program.
No single study is perfect, you can always list potential issues from a single study this fact is exploited by folks as yourself. Tobacco industry did the same thing years ago.
I didn't say anything about a coconut conspiracy. But we don't know whether the saturated fat in coconut have differential effects than the saturated fat in animal based products so anybody that claims, loudly, that coconut oil is a "good fat" is going well beyond the available evidence.
As is anybody who claims any fat is a "good fat." It's a profoundly stupid convention.
His research has been duplicated, for example, by Dean Ornish.
Once again, using non-cohort groups and conflating factors A/B/C/D and suggesting that B was the cause is substandard research. But then again, Ornish is an MD qualified to see patients. He lacks a science based doctorate, and thus lacks the formal education necessary to conduct rigorous studies. Even Taubes the "journalist" has greater depth and breadth of science based research experience, possessing two science degrees that Ornish lacks.
Can anyone cite a study that controlled for other factors? They keep citing Ornish's "study" and little else.
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Before you think she's a quack or shill of some sort, you do realize she warned people of the dangers of trans fats during the same time that the vegetarian lobbyists were pushing them to replace coconut oil in movie popcorn?
Don't forget kids, 300-375g of carbs is your RDA. Load up on those hunger pain creating empty calories and don't forget your skim milk to go with it!
