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Why don't you read his Wikipedia page and try that comment again?
Would you like me to just repeat myself? He has degrees in engineering and Journalism. So, as I said, Taubes isn't a researcher and doesn't have an education in science. But perhaps you are associating engineering with science, so let me make this minor change:
"Taubes isn't a researcher, he doesn't even have an education in nutritional science, biology or medicine, he is a journalist and little different than other fad diet authors. That is, he is just trying to sell books,etc."
Happy now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthYorkEd
Yeah, he's obviously just a hack.
Taubes presents science, he is not a "fad" diet book author.
As a writer and journalism? No he isn't a hack, he is a good writer and sales a lot of books. As a nutritional scientist of medical professional? Yes he is a hack.
Taube presents a story. Science isn't based on selectively citing and critiquing studies, that is the sort of thing people do to sell books.
Based on my extensive career as a researcher, I don't regard Ornish's paradigm (even if I removed any confirmation bias I would have) as particularly compelling. All he proved is that if you combined smoking cessation, exercise, eating fewer processed foods and including meditation with a non-cohort group, you'll achieve statistically significant results. It says nothing on diet alone and I am curious as to where these other Ornish-like "studies" exist...
Yes, your extensive career as a researcher. Have you conducted any studies relevant to the topic that you'd like to cite?
In any case, Ornish demonstrated exactly what his study says. With a low-fat whole foods plant-based diet along with some other lifestyle changes, he was able to reverse existing heart disease in a number of patients. I already told you about another such study, again, Caldwell Esselstyn demonstrated the same results with diet alone:
There are other studies as well that have shown similar results but with slightly different diets.
Ornish does have some books, but unlike Taubes he has conducted a number of studies to demonstrate his theories and is a medical professional. His books are about his research.
Yes, your extensive career as a researcher. Have you conducted any studies relevant to the topic that you'd like to cite?
In any case, Ornish demonstrated exactly what his study says. With a low-fat whole foods plant-based diet along with some other lifestyle changes, he was able to reverse existing heart disease in a number of patients. I already told you about another such study, again, Caldwell Esselstyn demonstrated the same results with diet alone:
There are other studies as well that have shown similar results but with slightly different diets.
Ornish does have some books, but unlike Taubes he has conducted a number of studies to demonstrate his theories and is a medical professional. His books are about his research.
35 person study is hardly landmark. Significant, sure, but landmark? Nein. If you're going to die, your adherence to a diet that will keep you alive is much better than a person that needs to lose some weight. Oddly enough, people want to apply a VLF diet to relatively healthy people because "these people about die did it and lost weight!"
No single study is a "landmark", at least not in medicine/nutritional science. But the results are powerful and have been duplicated. Nobody has demonstrated anything close to heart disease reversal with a low carbohydrate diet.
I'm not sure who you have in mind when you say "people" but Ornish does not believe that the general public needs to be on a very low-fat diet. A lower fat (15%~25% fat) diet based on whole plant foods, yes, but not very low fat (i.e., ~10% fat ). The very low fat diet is a therapeutic diet for heart disease.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmedes2
Higher fat diets increase satiety, increase weight loss and keep people happier. If you want to be hungry and restrict yourself for the rest of your life, so be it. Just look forward to living a boring life.
Higher fat diets are not more satiating, in fact, some of the foods with the highest satiation scores are very low fat. Based on the satiation index (where white bread = 100), developed by S Holt Ph.d, the foods with the highest satiation are:
The general theme based on this research is that high carbohydrate/low-fat or high protein foods are the most satiating. I didn't include them but high protein foods range from 140~200 (eggs: 150, beef: 170, etc).
Someone eating a low-fat diet is by no means going to be hungry all the time and such diets are certainly not boring. You want to see boring? Look at how most Americans eat....that is boring.
No single study is a "landmark", at least not in medicine/nutritional science. But the results are powerful and have been duplicated. Nobody has demonstrated anything close to heart disease reversal with a low carbohydrate diet.
I'm not sure who you have in mind when you say "people" but Ornish does not believe that the general public needs to be on a very low-fat diet. A lower fat (15%~25% fat) diet based on whole plant foods, yes, but not very low fat (i.e., ~10% fat ). The very low fat diet is a therapeutic diet for heart disease.
Higher fat diets are not more satiating, in fact, some of the foods with the highest satiation scores are very low fat. Based on the satiation index (where white bread = 100), developed by S Holt Ph.d, the foods with the highest satiation are:
The general theme based on this research is that high carbohydrate/low-fat or high protein foods are the most satiating. I didn't include them but high protein foods range from 140~200 (eggs: 150, beef: 170, etc).
Someone eating a low-fat diet is by no means going to be hungry all the time and such diets are certainly not boring. You want to see boring? Look at how most Americans eat....that is boring.
Real-life satiety effect of foods varies greatly according to what was consumed before the food in question. Unless I'm some kind of alien who processes food differently from everyone else. Example: An apple at 7 a.m. after having nothing since 7 p.m. dinner the night before: actually makes my hunger worse. An apple at 4 p.m. after I started my day with four eggs for breakfast: a great way to give me quick energy for some physical activity and buy three or four more hours before I need to eat dinner.
Ms. Holt and I apparently live in different worlds, as evidenced by her quote:
"Two high-fat breakfasts of fried eggs and bacon and toast or croissants and jam were much less filling than two equal-calorie high-carb breakfasts which were either rapidly-digested (cornflakes with sugar and toast and jam) or slowly-digested (All-Bran with banana slices, toast and margarine)"
This is pretty much exactly 180 degrees from how satiety works in my experience. I'm not saying she sat at a diner and asked everyone who left their bacon untouched to be in her study, but I am saying the people in the study sound nothing like me.
If you actually read the link you would know that Campbell quotes and references Esselstyn various times in his study.
Campbell does quote Esselstyn in the book "The China Study", but the actual epidemiological study he conducted with other researchers has nothing to do with Esselstyn. In any case, again, I didn't say anything about the China study so I'm not sure why you're linking me to some hokey website talking about it.
Ms. Holt and I apparently live in different worlds, as evidenced by her quote:
Yes, clearly you do, in Holt's world you conduct studies to figure out which foods are the most satiating rather than refer to your personal experience.
Your personal experiences are effected by your expectations of food and its common for people to associate high fat foods with "carbs" when they are sweet. For example, cake, cookies, ice cream, etc are typically all very high in fat. Most people have very little experience eating high carbohydrate foods other than sugary stuff.
Again, it rationalizes their diet which requires a great effort to curtail calories and living with hunger pains caused by a low-fat, high carb diet.
I find it interesting about the recent finding on low levels of certain fats in alzheimer sufferers. The rapid increase in Alzheimers is contemporaneous with the low fat diet fad. I'm not proposing a theory, but the parallels are striking.
Last edited by Bideshi; 06-18-2014 at 04:15 AM..
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