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I find it interesting about the recent finding on low levels of certain fats in alzheimer sufferers. The rapid increase in Alzheimers is contemporaneous with the low fat diet fad. I'm not proposing a theory, but the parallels are striking.
NIH paper confirming the classification of Azheimer's and type 3 diabetes, so yeah you have a good point:
Yeah, not willing to risk Alzheimer's, depression, weaker immune system, et al. Ornish even recommends empty calories in the form of plain pasta because it has improved texture (Reader Digest's article). Ornish never showed his diet alone cleans arteries so the study isn't particularly useful. Conversely, no study has shown that the Atkins diet clogs your arteries, especially not Ornish's "study" since it conflates too many variables together. If Atkins' own cardiologist infers that his diet made him heart healthy, that's good enough for me. Dr. Westman @ Duke has been making great strides in studying ketogenic diets on not only obesity, but also cancer prevention/curing.
I do find that the loudest opponents of Atkins or any ketogenic style diet are often "save the animals" type vegans. While I don't necessarily suspect user_id and others are this way, it's a pretty hilarious sideshow to witness them try to sell people on the idea that you'll kill yourself by improving your heart disease risk factors.
Last edited by saigafreak; 06-18-2014 at 05:01 AM..
If you don't suspect user_id "and others" of being the "save the animals" type vegans, and if you recognize that we who are not like that, are the loudest people here proclaiming that the Atkins or any ketogenic style diet is a bad idea, then you are finding exactly the opposite of what you are claiming to find. Right here in front of you.
Your logic is all twisted up, I think you've successfully confused yourself.
I'm against ANY "weight-loss diet." Ketogenic or otherwise. Paleo, Atkins, Eat Right For Your IQ Number, Twinkie, Intermittent Fasting, 5:2, B12Shot, Dukan, etc. etc. etc. I am pro eating healthy nutritionally-dense foods and exercise for the purpose of getting healthy and fit. When you try to get healthy and fit, the weight will come off as a natural effect of health and fitness.
If you don't suspect user_id "and others" of being the "save the animals" type vegans, and if you recognize that we who are not like that, are the loudest people here proclaiming that the Atkins or any ketogenic style diet is a bad idea, then you are finding exactly the opposite of what you are claiming to find. Right here in front of you.
Your logic is all twisted up, I think you've successfully confused yourself.
I'm against ANY "weight-loss diet." Ketogenic or otherwise. Paleo, Atkins, Eat Right For Your IQ Number, Twinkie, Intermittent Fasting, 5:2, B12Shot, Dukan, etc. etc. etc. I am pro eating healthy nutritionally-dense foods and exercise for the purpose of getting healthy and fit. When you try to get healthy and fit, the weight will come off as a natural effect of health and fitness.
Paleo (Atkins 2.0, whatever) is all about healthy nutritionally-dense foods and soundly rejects anything processed. It works and has time after time resulted in significant improvements in blood pressure, heart disease risk factors, and is pretty much is one of the most efficient ways to reach an ideal body weight. The vegans and low-fatters just don't like it that it's not a "no pain no gain" type diet so I suspect it's unfair to them that they have to struggle to lose weight while the Paleo folks live larger on their diet by consuming fatty fish, steak and lobster tails while achieving similar or even (gasp) better health metrics. Because it's unfair, they assume it's a scam or some fad diet. This is either out of envy, denial, or some self-righteous cause. I'm curious which of these feelings folks like Ornish identify with when they dismiss HDL as a "dump truck" that isn't necessary for vegan types (likely because his HDL is dangerously low).
Last edited by saigafreak; 06-18-2014 at 08:15 AM..
I find it interesting about the recent finding on low levels of certain fats in alzheimer sufferers. The rapid increase in Alzheimers is contemporaneous with the low fat diet fad. I'm not proposing a theory, but the parallels are striking.
Except that at no point have Americans reduced the amount of fat they consume, in fact, people are eating more fat by weight than they did 30 years ago. Americans never went on a low-fat diet.
Paleo is a great foundation for improving diet and health, but the restrictions should be evaluated according to personal tolerances and preferences. For example, whole grains are not a large part of my diet, but not because the paelo gurus say they are bad, but because they tend to make me feel sluggish and gassy. I don't drink milk, but love a few spoonfuls of kefir everyday, use butter for cooking, and haven't met a cheese yet that I didn't like. Your mileage may vary.
What gets my back up are the posters who insist that saturated fats (as occurring naturally in animal-based products and several varieties of nuts, NOT the refined seed and vegetable oils found in most baked goods and snack foods) are going to KILL US. This, despite any conclusive evidence to demonstrate the claim, and despite the obvious beneficial role fats play in our biological health.
Most of us agree that there is one basic rule for diet: focus on nutrient-dense whole foods while limiting or avoiding those that are heavily refined and processed. If you prefer plants, so be it, but don't stand on a pedestal and condemn those of us who enjoy eggs, meats, and other animal-based products (preferably sourced sustainably and ethically). Humans have subsisted on traditional diets for thousands and thousands of years; however, our modern diet of heavily processed and "food-like" substances is relatively new, as is the general downward trend of health.
Personally, I think the rise in consumption of sugars and refined flours and artificial flavorings and colors over the past few decades have seriously compromised our health, and some of the impacts are only starting to be noticed. ADHD, autism, food allergies, erectile dysfunction, GERD, skin conditions, dental decay, depression, behavioral/learning issues, etc, may all have a large dietary component, at least much larger than previously believed.
It is important to note that the low-fat dogma is directly associated with the rise of our intake of these foods, as is the manufacturer intent to have us coming back for more with the right mix of salt, sugar, and fats. And let us not forget the government, who openly embraced and endorsed the 50 gabillion servings of refined flour and sugars per day as the best road to health, while labelling pizza as a "vegetable". Becel, purveryors of fine inflammatory plastic that you can spread on your toast, continues to sponsor "heart-healthy" events with the full support of the American and Canadian Heart Associations. How ironic.
A cynic might suggest that this was all part and parcel of a plan to keep people sick so they would become apathetic, easier to control, and spend billions of dollars for prescription drugs to correct conditions easily rectified by simple dietary and lifestyle changes. But hey, that's just crazy, right?
What gets my back up are the posters who insist that saturated fats (as occurring naturally in animal-based products and several varieties of nuts, NOT the refined seed and vegetable oils found in most baked goods and snack foods) are going to KILL US. This, despite any conclusive evidence to demonstrate the claim, and despite the obvious beneficial role fats play in our biological health.
This is my take on it also. Evolution doesn't work that way, having nature design foods that will slowly clog your arteries and kill you over time. Some things occurring naturally are poisonous/toxic (mushrooms) or become that way after refinement (sugar, cocaine, etc), or addicting (opium) but the effects are rather immediate or occur in the short term, thus humans have evolved to avoid those foods. The Ornish types will try to convince you something like a coconut, a naturally occurring and affluent plant product enjoyed by humans living in the tropics for hundreds of thousands of years, is deadly because it will "clog your arteries". the vegan defenders of Ornish type diets believe we've evolved past the idea of eating animals and instead should eat plain flou, even though we possess 4 teeth designed to tear flesh from bone. Instead, Ornish says we should eat plain flour pasta with a little cumin sprinkled on top. What a crock.
There is no difference between a high saturated fat plant like an avocado or coconut vs. ground meat.
This is my take on it also. Evolution doesn't work that way, having nature design foods that will slowly clog your arteries and kill you over time. Some things occurring naturally are poisonous/toxic (mushrooms) or become that way after refinement (sugar, cocaine, etc), or addicting (opium) but the effects are rather immediate or occur in the short term, thus humans have evolved to avoid those foods. The Ornish types will try to convince you something like a coconut, a naturally occurring and affluent plant product enjoyed by humans living in the tropics for hundreds of thousands of years, is deadly because it will "clog your arteries". the vegan defenders of Ornish type diets believe we've evolved past the idea of eating animals and instead should eat plain flou, even though we possess 4 teeth designed to tear flesh from bone. Instead, Ornish says we should eat plain flour pasta with a little cumin sprinkled on top. What a crock.
There is no difference between a high saturated fat plant like an avocado or coconut vs. ground meat.
And they are all so damn delicious. If it isn't evidence enough, look at the people that actually follow these types of diets. Look at those tropical islanders that fish and climb trees for coconuts. They are in perfect health. Now look at these underweight vegans.
And they are all so damn delicious. If it isn't evidence enough, look at the people that actually follow these types of diets. Look at those tropical islanders that fish and climb trees for coconuts. They are in perfect health. Now look at these underweight vegans.
Now, I understand that charring or smoking meat everyday may not be beneficial due to the oxidation of the fat, but slow roasting or oven baking meats under a controlled heat source is completely safe since the long chain fatty acids are highly stable under reasonable cooking temperatures.
Few people are capable of answering the question of why a high saturated fat food like an avocado is a good fat whereas an egg or butter is a bad fat.
Now, I understand that charring or smoking meat everyday may not be beneficial due to the oxidation of the fat, but slow roasting or oven baking meats under a controlled heat source is completely safe since the long chain fatty acids are highly stable under reasonable cooking temperatures.
I believe the whole cancer caused by red meat thing is due to the preparation of the meat. Carcinogens are often known to be cancer causing, regardless from what they originate from.
The flavor is much different if you cook on a low temperature compared to a high temperature, try it out. I prefer my red meat cooked slow and at low temps, uncharred.
Paleo is a great foundation for improving diet and health..
Based on what? The claims of a handful of diet book authors? The paleo diet has not been put to the test, we have no idea how it impacts long-term health.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthYorkEd
What gets my back up are the posters who insist that saturated fats (as occurring naturally in animal-based products and several varieties of nuts, NOT the refined seed and vegetable oils found in most baked goods and snack foods) are going to KILL US. This, despite any conclusive evidence to demonstrate the claim, and despite the obvious beneficial role fats play in our biological health.
Every major medical organization, both in the US and Europe, recommend one limit saturated fat to reduce your risk of heart disease and type 2 diabetes. Saturated fat doesn't play any role in our biological health, saturated fat is not an essential nutrient. The essential fatty acids are omega-3 and omega-6, which are primarily found in plants and seafood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthYorkEd
It is important to note that the low-fat dogma is directly associated with the rise of our intake of these foods, as is the manufacturer intent to have us coming back for more with the right mix of salt, sugar, and fats.
No medical organization ever recommended that people consume refined sugars and refined carbohydrates and at no point have Americans reduced the amount of fat they consumed.
With the exception of the produce section, the vast majority of products at the grocery aren't low-fat.
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