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That and other New Deal programs is "what we did" during the depression.
Ya know, I HAD completely forgotten about the Civilian Conservation Corps...
But I'm glad you brought it up. Lets talk about the 'new deal'
Do some reading about the panic of 1907. The stock market suffered a loss of over 35%, but, because the government (Largely) stayed out... it didn't drag on for over 10 years until a world war intervened.
Instead, the market had naturally adjusted and the losses were gone within 2 years.
Also, the CCCdidn't come along until 3-4 years AFTER the crash. WPA was later still.
(TO say nothing of how people got along before)
Baring a couple things like national defense, there's not a thing the Gov't can do that Pvt industry cannot do better.
That and other New Deal programs is "what we did" during the depression.
allow me to be the first to tell you ,you need to read better.. unemployment plus working off the books for min wage is what i said. not just unemployment.... now add that up and what do you get?
we had quite a few tell us they want more then 20 bucks an hour on the books because they are making more just doing what they have been doing,staying on unemployment and working a bimmy min wage job off the books.. others are staying on unemployment and taking jobs off the books for straight commission.
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-12-2011 at 02:58 AM..
Get rid of Welfare?? Good Lord man, how spoiled and entitled have some of us become? I'd be willing to bet anybody throwing this idea around is white. When was the last time you were arrested just because of your skin color? When was the last time you could only get a min.wage job because of your skin color?
Welfare saves lives; you never know, there may be a time you need it.
Some people are motivated to work and enjoy their work, while others will never be motivated by work no matter what job they hold. It usually comes down to attitude and what floats your boat.
Not everyone has to work to survive. I can understand why many people have lost their motivation to work in today's society with the many cuts that employers have made recently in jobs, benefits, pay, pensions and health insurance. Let's not forget the cost cutting tool of the temporary layoff. I really think as the job market improves, you will see the largest turnover of jobs in our history. Employees will be looking for employers that have provided a long track record of stable jobs while treating their employees fairly. An old successful businessman I knew was always asked how he kept his turnover on employees so low. He said, Simple, I pay them and pay them well. He basically took good care of them and they took care of him. It's a two way street.
It seems like I am the only one motivated to work and work overtime, including doing side businsess for future financial goals.
People just seem to only do Overtime when its needed but don't do it for the future needs. A lot of them don't trust the stock market and/or don't even know what 401K is.
Also, I am ALWAYS positive in my work and general in life but people think I am on drugs because I am always positive.
Any comments and suggestions?
Shave your legs.
Seriously though, I'm not sure what type of place you work, or the sort of people you work with.
Some people have very short-term goals and aren't interested in the long run. Sometimes, I think they're smarter than people like me, who sacrifice in the short run by working hard in order to have a better life later. It's an uncertain investment, but I need the security of knowing I have something there to fall back on. I couldn't live paycheck to paycheck.
In general, I have found that in this economy, many employers treat employees quite poorly because they're not worried about them leaving in this job market. Employees are looked as an expendible commodity rather than a potential asset. I think this is a mistake, another example of the short-term thinking that has gotten us into so much trouble.
I can speak from personal experience in saying that some companies have made it so hellish to work there that it's easy to see why even the most dedicated people turn off.
It most certainly does screw the middle class. You can't just look at federal income taxes in a vacuum. Middle class workers pay a much larger percentage of their income in payroll taxes than wealthy people do. It is regressive.
The reason the top 1% pay 38% of the taxes, and the bottom 50% pay less is because the top 1% is making more money! Income inequality is a major problem in this country and around the world. Regressive schemes like a flat tax or the really heinous "fair" tax just exacerbate the problem and puts more money into the pockets of the wealthy.
Please show me the statistics that show that the middle class pays a greater percentage than the upper class. You DO realize what a progressive tax system means, don't you? The upper class pays a higher percentage of taxes than the middle class. If the average middle class citizen is too lazy to educate himself/herself on how to make use of tax breaks, whose fault is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
No. wrong. Fair would be if every man woman and child paid exactly the same amount of tax. How can anything be more fair than that? That would now be about $8,000 per person.
Isn't it funny how the people who were born rich and intelligent and beautiful and healthy and ambitious, and the people who were born poor and dull and homely and sickly and meek, can never agree on what is fair.
I can get on board with that. Everyone pays an equal amount. It won't happen...but anything that actually holds those who receive entitlement money accountable is fine by me.
Please show me the statistics that show that the middle class pays a greater percentage than the upper class. You DO realize what a progressive tax system means, don't you? The upper class pays a higher percentage of taxes than the middle class. If the average middle class citizen is too lazy to educate himself/herself on how to make use of tax breaks, whose fault is that?
.
Well, for starters, people who have capital gains (mostly fairly wealthy) pay only 15% in that part of their margin that is derived from investments. Most wage workers are in a higher than 15% marginal bracket. Upper class taxpayers who receive the bulk of their income from investments are not participants in our much heralded progressive tax system. Only "workers", including those in the middle class, are subject to the progressive penalties.
So a middle-class worker who gets overtime might pay 25% on income over about $40K, but an investor with plenty of cash to invest, with capital gains income pushing him over $40K pays only 15% on that margin. Furthermore, if his investment hits the jackpot and he makes a million, he still pays only 15%, while our WalMart greeter keeps on paying 25% of his overtime or second part-time job.
The answer to your second question is, it is the fault of legislators who have created a tax code that the average worker is not even strong enough to lift, such that it requires a level of training and constant retraining that is only within the reach of a paid professional consultant.
When your kids get sick, are you too lazy to educate yourself on how to do surgery? If you get sued, are you too lazy to educate yourself on how to defend yourself in court?
No, he asked for statistics that prove the middle class pays a greater percentage than the upper class. Dreaming up a perfect scenario that fits your argument does not provide those statistics, I'm sure I can find a scenario where a waitress makes more money than an attorney, that doesn't mean it is logical to use it to prove waitresses make more money than attorneys.
Get rid of Welfare?? Good Lord man, how spoiled and entitled have some of us become? I'd be willing to bet anybody throwing this idea around is white. When was the last time you were arrested just because of your skin color? When was the last time you could only get a min.wage job because of your skin color?
Welfare saves lives; you never know, there may be a time you need it.
Unfortunately you continue to live in a mental world of stereotypes at a time when the stereotypes are no longer true. More whtle people than blacks receive welfare, even if the percentage of whites on welfare is less, because there are more whites than blacks in this country. Ironically you are giving us a derogatory portrait of blacks (as needing welfare, as opposed to whites, who do not "need" it), but I doubt you are even aware of that. If welfare were to be suddently cut off, more whites would "suffer" its loss than blacks.
Welfare is a complex and difficult subject. It has been a life-saver for many folks (of all races) in genuine need, just as it has been an enabler for generations of many other folks (of all races) to continue to be mired in horrible attitudes which make it O.K. to live off us taxpayers for the long term.
Well, for starters, people who have capital gains (mostly fairly wealthy) pay only 15% in that part of their margin that is derived from investments. Most wage workers are in a higher than 15% marginal bracket. Upper class taxpayers who receive the bulk of their income from investments are not participants in our much heralded progressive tax system. Only "workers", including those in the middle class, are subject to the progressive penalties.
So a middle-class worker who gets overtime might pay 25% on income over about $40K, but an investor with plenty of cash to invest, with capital gains income pushing him over $40K pays only 15% on that margin. Furthermore, if his investment hits the jackpot and he makes a million, he still pays only 15%, while our WalMart greeter keeps on paying 25% of his overtime or second part-time job.
The answer to your second question is, it is the fault of legislators who have created a tax code that the average worker is not even strong enough to lift, such that it requires a level of training and constant retraining that is only within the reach of a paid professional consultant.
When your kids get sick, are you too lazy to educate yourself on how to do surgery? If you get sued, are you too lazy to educate yourself on how to defend yourself in court?
So essentially you are saying the middle class pays too much in taxes because they are too lazy to research the tax structure?
Reading about taxes is not such a hard thing. I hire a surgeon to perform operations, I hire a lawyer to represent me in court, and I hire an accountant ($500/ tax season for the average middle class guy) to find thousands in deductions for me. Don't blame someone else because you are too lazy to find the deductions that are available to everyone.
And Slackjaw - thank you. I look forward to jtur's response to your post.
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