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Bitcoin is as worthless as gold. Gold has some use as a conductor of electricity, but it has absolutely no use for most people. You can't eat it, and you can't build with it. The only reason gold has value is because you believe that some idiot will trade you something of actual value in exchange for it. If the s-word hits the fan, I would rather have a vault full of food and water than a vault full of gold. You might want gold in your vault expecting that I will sell you food from mine, but I have no use for a shiny metal. Gold is pretty and shiny, but the only reason gold has any value is because people like shiny things and are stupid enough to believe that this emotional reaction is as good as truth. Bitcoin isn't an e-dollar, bitcoin is e-gold, something that becomes garbage the instant actual value starts to matter.
Bitcoin is as worthless as gold. Gold has some use as a conductor of electricity, but it has absolutely no use for most people. You can't eat it, and you can't build with it. The only reason gold has value is because you believe that some idiot will trade you something of actual value in exchange for it. If the s-word hits the fan, I would rather have a vault full of food and water than a vault full of gold. You might want gold in your vault expecting that I will sell you food from mine, but I have no use for a shiny metal. Gold is pretty and shiny, but the only reason gold has any value is because people like shiny things and are stupid enough to believe that this emotional reaction is as good as truth. Bitcoin isn't an e-dollar, bitcoin is e-gold, something that becomes garbage the instant actual value starts to matter.
5000 years of idiots coveting gold says it is a store of value that has endured and lasted longer then any stock , central banks around the world holding gold says the same ….why do you suppose gold is coveted like that ? Because over time it has endured empires as a store of value
Last edited by mathjak107; 09-29-2021 at 02:08 AM..
Any money token that is a medium of exchange to facilitate trade when barter is insufficient, requires consent of the trading partners.
The power to create the money token and assign trade value is little understood.
Most assume that governments have the power to "print money" but that is incorrect.
In America's case, Congress can "coin money" (stamp bullion) or "borrow money." If Congress could create money (or bullion) why would it need to borrow it?
Since 1933, only dollar bills (IOUs) have circulated in lieu of lawful money (gold coin - which was confiscated by "Saint" FDR).
Bitcoin and other digital tokens are only fungible as long as someone will accept them. But anyone who is "creating" them out of thin air, is basically trying to cheat the seller.
In an equitable trade, both parties offer something of value.
Money is an abstraction for trading the reality of goods and services. It was limited to gold and silver coin. (Art 1, Sec 10, USCON)
Since 1933, that has not been the case. So it's no surprise that new tokens are being touted as "money."
Any money token that is a medium of exchange to facilitate trade when barter is insufficient, requires consent of the trading partners.
The power to create the money token and assign trade value is little understood.
Most assume that governments have the power to "print money" but that is incorrect.
In America's case, Congress can "coin money" (stamp bullion) or "borrow money." If Congress could create money (or bullion) why would it need to borrow it?
Since 1933, only dollar bills (IOUs) have circulated in lieu of lawful money (gold coin - which was confiscated by "Saint" FDR).
Bitcoin and other digital tokens are only fungible as long as someone will accept them. But anyone who is "creating" them out of thin air, is basically trying to cheat the seller.
In an equitable trade, both parties offer something of value.
Money is an abstraction for trading the reality of goods and services. It was limited to gold and silver coin. (Art 1, Sec 10, USCON)
Since 1933, that has not been the case. So it's no surprise that new tokens are being touted as "money."
Aside from the criminal uses and people wanting to illegally move their money out of their country, like China, without common worries of hyperinflation so many people would not be looking into these alternatives.
For some countries like some in Latin America, this sort of currency experiment makes some sense since their endemic inflation is already at high levels. Like in Venezuela. Or they effectively have no sovereign currency like El Salvador.
In the USA our Gov't can directly coin money, and again the 'Trillion Dollar Platinum Proof Coin' is again being discussed.
But aside from that unusual idea, in the US our Gov't essentially creates money via the Fed. The Fed can create USD's out of thin air and then exchange those dollars for US Treasury debt. Essentially monetizing debt. And this of course is ongoing, and the reason many people worry about hyperinflation.
IMO printing 'too much money' can certainly lead to more inflation, but hyperinflation takes more than money. It takes concurrent extremely severe governmental malfeasance, loss trust and rule of law, as in Zimbabwe. or massive loss of a war and national productivity as with Weimar. So with the USA, loss of a major war or an asteroid hit could do it.
In the USA our Gov't can directly coin money, and again the 'Trillion Dollar Platinum Proof Coin' is again being discussed.
It's not silver nor gold, so it's not "constitutional". See Art 1, Sec 10, USCON. The Coinage Act of 1792 has not been repealed nor voided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose
But aside from that unusual idea, in the US our Gov't essentially creates money via the Fed. The Fed can create USD's out of thin air and then exchange those dollars for US Treasury debt. Essentially monetizing debt. And this of course is ongoing, and the reason many people worry about hyperinflation.
That is a common mistake, promulgated by the world's greatest propaganda ministry. The "dollar bill" being debt (IOU denominated in dollars) is NOT MONEY. That has always been the law. Pursuant to 12 USC Sec. 411, only deficits empower the CONgress to issue more IOUs (dollar bills).... borrowed at usury, no less. Since 1933, most people have never seen real money. To compound matters, CONgress repudiated redeeming their notes in 1933 (see: House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933; Gold Reserve Act of 1934).
Quote:
IMO printing 'too much money' can certainly lead to more inflation, but hyperinflation takes more than money. It takes concurrent extremely severe governmental malfeasance, loss trust and rule of law, as in Zimbabwe. or massive loss of a war and national productivity as with Weimar. So with the USA, loss of a major war or an asteroid hit could do it.
Ironically, there has been a currency DROUGHT since 1930s. No one has "too much money" chasing too few goods. Bill Gates, et al, are not bidding up the price for milk and cookies. The REAL culprit is socialist taxation of American labor and industry.
It's COMMON SENSE, that when you TAX something, the cost to buy it must go UP.
Tax American labor - the price goes up (inflates).
Tax American industry - the price goes up.
And when that tax and administrative burden is too much, the company goes bust or leaves for friendlier places or hires undocumented labor to avoid the added costs.
The SIMPLE REMEDY is to abolish socialism and all its taxes and administrative overhead. Of course, no government will voluntarily give up revenue and power. After the collapse of government, hopefully, the survivors will have learned the lesson and not re-establish that abomination.
Dollar Bills (which aren't dollars)
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/
Search report for “currency in circulation”
Federal Reserve Banks . . . Sept 9, 2021
Currency in circulation . . . 2,198,561 millions (2.1 trillions)
(Population : 333,224,854 ; $6,597 per capita)
I pity those who think they will "cash out" in the great Panic. Even if they get cents on the dollar bill, they can't ever pay off the 28+ trillion DOLLAR (not dollar bill) public debt.
MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005
Federal Reserve NOTES are NOT money, by law. Never were. Never can be.
5000 years of idiots coveting gold says it is a store of value that has endured and lasted longer then any stock , central banks around the world holding gold says the same ….why do you suppose gold is coveted like that ? Because over time it has endured empires as a store of value
Thank you.
While it's been a somewhat painful past 6 months owning gold, I'll only take a loss should I sell it; which I won't for years.
And actually, market's in a good dip to buy more.
It's not silver nor gold, so it's not "constitutional". See Art 1, Sec 10, USCON. The Coinage Act of 1792 has not been repealed nor voided.
That is a common mistake, promulgated by the world's greatest propaganda ministry. The "dollar bill" being debt (IOU denominated in dollars) is NOT MONEY. That has always been the law. Pursuant to 12 USC Sec. 411, only deficits empower the CONgress to issue more IOUs (dollar bills).... borrowed at usury, no less. Since 1933, most people have never seen real money. To compound matters, CONgress repudiated redeeming their notes in 1933 (see: House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933; Gold Reserve Act of 1934).
Ironically, there has been a currency DROUGHT since 1930s. No one has "too much money" chasing too few goods. Bill Gates, et al, are not bidding up the price for milk and cookies. The REAL culprit is socialist taxation of American labor and industry.
It's COMMON SENSE, that when you TAX something, the cost to buy it must go UP.
Tax American labor - the price goes up (inflates).
Tax American industry - the price goes up.
And when that tax and administrative burden is too much, the company goes bust or leaves for friendlier places or hires undocumented labor to avoid the added costs.
The SIMPLE REMEDY is to abolish socialism and all its taxes and administrative overhead. Of course, no government will voluntarily give up revenue and power. After the collapse of government, hopefully, the survivors will have learned the lesson and not re-establish that abomination.
Dollar Bills (which aren't dollars)
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/
Search report for “currency in circulation”
Federal Reserve Banks . . . Sept 9, 2021
Currency in circulation . . . 2,198,561 millions (2.1 trillions)
(Population : 333,224,854 ; $6,597 per capita)
I pity those who think they will "cash out" in the great Panic. Even if they get cents on the dollar bill, they can't ever pay off the 28+ trillion DOLLAR (not dollar bill) public debt.
MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005
Federal Reserve NOTES are NOT money, by law. Never were. Never can be.
The Fed creates electronic money. No dollar bills, silver or gold is needed. All they need is thin air, Constitutional or not, that is the current reality and how they create money.
The Fed creates electronic money. No dollar bills, silver or gold is needed. All they need is thin air, Constitutional or not, that is the current reality and how they create money.
The real question is, how much longer can they get away with it.
The real question is, how much longer can they get away with it.
IMO into perpetuity if necessary. I see no reason why the Fed can't keep unlimited amounts of US debt on its books. The interest they receive on it gets swept back to the Treasury, as opposed to any other entity in the world owning US debt. Inflation is our worry, not some large sounding national debt number, hyperinflation or federal insolvency.
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