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So because one of my sons did terribly in school does that mean I was a poor parent and likely he grew up in poverty? I always assumed it was the teachers fault!
You thought the reason your kids did bad in school was due to the teachers? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. If your kid did bad in school it's not the teacher's fault, no matter how bad the teacher. That's not to say it was your fault either, but a kid with the potential to do well will do well if s/he has parents that are parenting. The teacher makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. My kid will learn to read, write, learn at least lower level college maths, and the sciences because I will teach her that if nobody else well (unless she's challenged of course). God help her with history and politics. I'll be of no use.
"If all or our teachers were excellent we would not be faced with failing schools!"
That was the comment from a friend of mine who was talking about the problem with schools and education today.
I tried to tell him that it was not really the teachers fault but the fault of unmotivated students, poverty, ignorance, teachers unions, a sick youth society, and government policies that says anyone who is interested in learning is a nerd, and a thousand other reasons. He would not buy it.
He went on to say: "If the teachers were any good they could get the students to listen to them and every student would excel. And if the teacher does not get results, fire them and bring in someone who can do the job."
Do you think my friend is right? Most of the fault is the teachers?
In what world are *all* the people doing *any* job excellent? There is a fallacy immediately in your idea that all teachers could be excellent.
This is the whole Jaime Escalante fallacy. If the only way to educate kids is to have teachers give up their own lives outside of school in order to be excellent, then there is NO way to educate all of our students. Teachers are people. They have lives outside of teaching. They have families to care for.
If students are motivated to learn, then they will learn.
In what world are *all* the people doing *any* job excellent? There is a fallacy immediately in your idea that all teachers could be excellent.
This is the whole Jaime Escalante fallacy. If the only way to educate kids is to have teachers give up their own lives outside of school in order to be excellent, then there is NO way to educate all of our students. Teachers are people. They have lives outside of teaching. They have families to care for.
If students are motivated to learn, then they will learn.
ITA!
Someone who thinks All ___fill in the blank___ can be excellent is a few cards short of a deck. In any profession, there is a range of ability from person to person. Some are lousy, some are excellent but most are adequate. If we want only excellent teachers, they're going to have class sizes of 300 because there will not be enough teachers to go around.
Peer pressure turned her into a prep in less than one year. I am willing to bet that there is NOTHING her old school could have done to have resulted in that change. I'm also willing to bet that it's not anything that teachers did that resulted in that change. I'm convinced it was her trying to fit in to her new demographic. Goth-punk isn't acceptable where I teach. She was the only student coming to school with blue hair, black clothes and a studded collar. Now she looks like the rest of the kids and with each passing month she acts more like the kids who grew up here.
In other words she's no longer an individual. She's just one more young person who has had the uniqueness squeezed out of her because she was made to feel that being herself wasn't good enough. She had to change to fit in. And at least one teacher at her school thinks that's a good thing.
If she had a poem inside of her about being the unique person in her school..... it's probably gone forever.
Congratulations, America. You've lost a poet (which she was just by being the kid who made a statement simply by walking in a room)..... you've lost an individual..... you've lost a person who will buck the system. But you've got one more person who will get in line and do what she's told. We'll just assume the teachers are all breathing a sigh of relief that no one will be distracted by the studded collar.
The excellent teacher would see what's underneath the blue hair and the black clothes and the studded collar. But that person isn't teaching. He's thrown his hands in the air and walked away because he's not the teacher we value. Not anymore.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 12-14-2013 at 08:03 PM..
Very vsalid point. In college an old high school teacher suggested I look into teaching as he thought I would be quite good at it. I didn't have the heart to say that engineering paystwice as much. While teaching is a noble profession, I was all about the benjamins. Sadly this has continued, my teacher friends make 50k with those wanting more money RELUCTANTLY going into administrative roles (which most hate). Engineering has me into six figures.
I still remember my sister's amazement when her son's first job out of college, as an engineer, paid $10,000 a year more than my sister earned at her job in education (as a school social worker) with 28 years of experience, a master's degree plus 30 post master's degree credits.
Hmmm, he had 4 years of college and no experience and she had 6 plus years of college and 28 years of experience and he earned $10,000 a year more in salary. There is something seriously wrong with that situation.(It is so shocking I had to write it twice!)
there are people teaching subjects and people who are supposed to be learning what is taught. both need to tighten up. the reason they do not tighten up is they are not free to fire and expel the non participants in the process. the public school system has become disfunctional. the only thing they can agree on is spending more money, mostly on new laptops.
the focus of all this schooling is to get a job. the reason the k12 stinks at channeling people to get a job is bek they dont follow the private industry model.
look at strive. look at 2nd chance. they kick 50% of the participants out the first 2 days.
In other words she's no longer an individual. She's just one more young person who has had the uniqueness squeezed out of her because she was made to feel that being herself wasn't good enough. She had to change to fit in. And at least one teacher at her school thinks that's a good thing.
If she had a poem inside of her about being the unique person in her school..... it's probably gone forever.
Congratulations, America. You've lost a poet (which she was just by being the kid who made a statement simply by walking in a room)..... you've lost an individual..... you've lost a person who will buck the system. But you've got one more person who will get in line and do what she's told. We'll just assume the teachers are all breathing a sigh of relief that no one will be distracted by the studded collar.
The excellent teacher would see what's underneath the blue hair and the black clothes and the studded collar. But that person isn't teaching. He's thrown his hands in the air and walked away because he's not the teacher we value. Not anymore.
She's as individual as any of us. We all want to fit in. Without her counter culture to fit in with, she chose another group to fit in with.
When I was taking my psych classes in preparation for my teaching cert, one assignment was to go watch teenagers at the mall. One group of Goth's realized I was watching them and after putting on quite a show for me, asked what I was doing. They then explained that they are individuals and set themselves apart from society. I looked them over and pointed out that they were all pretty much dressed the same and they all pretty much acted the same and that they were not expressing individuality at all but rather simply adopting an alternate standard but a standard none the less. The conversation ended quickly and they just walked off.
Teens have a very strong need to fit in. Our angry goth girl didn't have her angry goth group to hang out with in our school. There is no such group. So she picked another. That is just human nature. We have a need to belong. We all adhere to standards whether they're the popular in society or just popular with our group. You don't fit in if you're not like the group.
Yes, I think learning how to fit in and be accepted by your peers is a good thing. Life is lonely without that. This girl has gone from wearing an angry scowl to constantly smiling. I'm sorry you think that's a bad thing. Personally, I'd rather be happy as one of the gang than alone and individual.
None of us are anywhere near as individual as we'd like to think we are. You'd be surprised how average most of us are. Look around your neighborhood. You probably dress like your neighbors, drive the same style vehicle as your neighbors, live in similar houses that are similarly decorated, you probably talk like them and act like them. I once had a fortune teller tell me that she could ask four questions and start predicting things about people and be right. We are amazingly like our demographic. That's not a bad thing. It's how we fit in.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-14-2013 at 08:38 PM..
there are people teaching subjects and people who are supposed to be learning what is taught. both need to tighten up. the reason they do not tighten up is they are not free to fire and expel the non participants in the process. the public school system has become disfunctional. the only thing they can agree on is spending more money, mostly on new laptops.
the focus of all this schooling is to get a job. the reason the k12 stinks at channeling people to get a job is bek they dont follow the private industry model.
look at strive. look at 2nd chance. they kick 50% of the participants out the first 2 days.
All I want for Christmas is a test retake...a test retake...a test retake....
My school has adopted test retake fever. 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances are routine. Gotta get that A.....
Sadly, it's never the kids who are failing to do the retakes. Just the kids who want to bump that B to an A. I'm not really sure what we're accomplishing here.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-14-2013 at 08:58 PM..
She's as individual as any of us. We all want to fit in. Without her counter culture to fit in with, she chose another group to fit in with.
When I was taking my psych classes in preparation for my teaching cert, one assignment was to go watch teenagers at the mall. One group of Goth's realized I was watching them and after putting on quite a show for me, asked what I was doing. They then explained that they are individuals and set themselves apart from society. I looked them over and pointed out that they were all pretty much dressed the same and they all pretty much acted the same and that they were not expressing individuality at all but rather simply adopting an alternate standard but a standard none the less. The conversation ended quickly and they just walked off.
Teens have a very strong need to fit in. Our angry goth girl didn't have her angry goth group to hang out with in our school. There is no such group. So she picked another. That is just human nature. We have a need to belong. We all adhere to standards whether they're the popular in society or just popular with our group. You don't fit in if you're not like the group.
Yes, I think learning how to fit in and be accepted by your peers is a good thing. Life is lonely without that. This girl has gone from wearing an angry scowl to constantly smiling. I'm sorry you think that's a bad thing. Personally, I'd rather be happy as one of the gang than alone and individual.
None of us are anywhere near as individual as we'd like to think we are. You'd be surprised how average most of us are. Look around your neighborhood. You probably dress like your neighbors, drive the same style vehicle as your neighbors, live in similar houses that are similarly decorated, you probably talk like them and act like them. I once had a fortune teller tell me that she could ask four questions and start predicting things about people and be right. We are amazingly like our demographic. That's not a bad thing. It's how we fit in.
I have to wonder if "constantly smiling" actually means she is happy. Picking and conforming to a group doesn't mean you are happy in it. It just means you don't wish to be alone. I spent my entire teen years refusing to conform to a group standard. I'd do anything to NOT be part of that stupid peer group. My sister conformed. Bent over backwards and twisted up to conform to whatever the morons who lead her group decided was cool. Conformity does not make us happy, it just makes it so no one can tell how intensely miserable we are because we have no idea of ourselves beyond what "the group" is.
I live in redneck suburban southern hell. Everyone here wears overalls, drives a truck, and speaks with a severe accent. They grill out, watch sporting events, and go on and on about their local church or conservative mouthpiece. I have no desire to buy a truck, overalls, a grill, watch a sporting event (or even get a clue what sporting event is currently in season) or attend their church. One does not need to conform to a peer group to be happy.
You thought the reason your kids did bad in school was due to the teachers? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. If your kid did bad in school it's not the teacher's fault, no matter how bad the teacher. That's not to say it was your fault either, but a kid with the potential to do well will do well if s/he has parents that are parenting. The teacher makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. My kid will learn to read, write, learn at least lower level college maths, and the sciences because I will teach her that if nobody else well (unless she's challenged of course). God help her with history and politics. I'll be of no use.
I'll second that. My kids did/do great in math and science but English and history...not so great. Acorns do not fall far from the tree...
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ITA!
