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A couple weeks ago I got a note in my son's behavior log that said: "On the way back from Art, your son was scratching the back of another student from our class leaving a few very long red scratches down his back. The nurse checked the other child and told me about what was there."
I asked my son what happened, and he and the other boy were playing a game, he was the "house" and my son was the "cat" and the "cat" had to try to climb up the "house". He said the other boy suggested this game. (don't know if this is the truth but it is what he told me)
I told him that he must never put a hand on another child. He is to keep his hands to himself at all times. If another child suggests such an idiotic game again that is going to involve them touching each other, then he needs to tell the other kid that he is not playing that kind of game. And to stop fooling around in the hallway.
Anyway, a few days later my son came home and told him that another boy, one that we see each week when we bring my daughter to dance class, approached him at recess and said "You scratched my friend", and my son said he didn't, and the kid said "Yes, you did, you scratched Alex". (menacing tone of voice here) Possibly more words were exchanged, and then the boy told my son that he was going to lie to me and tell me that my son had scratched him as well. I don't know how long the conversation lasted by my son apparently had started to cry, because the other boy said "CRY, baby CRY". The teacher told this boy to stop, that he had been very bad this week, and if he was bad again she was going to have a talk with his mother because she "knows his mother". My son came home from school that day, very upset and mad, and asked me to talk to the boy. I told him, after hearing the story that he should tell the boy, next time we see him at dance, that what he said wasn't nice and hurt his feelings. But my son refused and said he didn't want to talk to him.
Anyway, I saw the kid at school and my son told me to go talk to him while he hid under the table. I told him, NO, you are not going under ANY table and I am not talking to this boy at school while his mother is not present.
We missed dance last week so tonight is the first time I have seen the mother, and the kid by chance was not with her. I told my son that I was going to talk to the mother, not her kid (I'd be pissed if some mother just up and came to talk to my kid), and that he would join me in the conversation w/the mother to tell her what her kid said to him.
Anyway, I approached the lady very nicely, introducing myself, then my son and I told her the story.
I was just amazed at her haughty reply:
"Well, I can't get involved with this 7 and 8 year old's problems. I don't get involved with my son's problems. I tell him he has to work it out by himself. I mean, I'm not going to go home and put him in time out for this." I told her I certainly wasn't asking her to, then she continued on about how "she can't be getting involved in 1st and 2nd grade things, because she's a grownup." and "her son has to work stuff out on his own." I could see this woman was going to do NOTHING so I said to my son, "Maybe that is what you should do, you can talk to her son and tell him that he hurt your feelings", etc.... (As if I hadn't suggested this already). anyway he agreed and seemed to feel better.
Anyway, I was really pissed at this woman's apparent lack of concern about her son's bratty behavior, and the fact that she didn't even say she would talk to him about it pissed me off. I wasn't rude, demanding or pushy. Not to mention that she referred to herself as a "grownup" (so what, I'm not???) My son asked me for help in a situation and was obviously upset about it. He has played with this boy every week at the dance studio and there has never been a problem. But the fact that he wanted me to step in and do something indicates to me that he was stressed out about it, and being that we are there together every week I really wanted to take care of the matter.
My DH and I talked to our son again, and told him never to cry in front of other kids as they may make fun of him like this kid did. I told my son never to worry if a kid threatens to tell me lies. We gave him some come back lines and told him if he could not think of something clever to say that he should just say "I have nothign to say to you" and walk away. We also told him to try to work it out with the kid and if he can, continue to play w/him at dance. Although frankly, i'd rather he didn't play with the kid anymore because I just don't like the mother.
My questions are, did I do the right thing? I don't feel I should have ignored my sons request for help, but should I just have told him to forget about it, or what? Was I right to approach the mother and was her response normal? Because if someone told me that my son did that, I wouldn't apologize certainly w/out getting my son's side of the story, but I would say that I would speak to my son about it. I also felt that her snotty response was even more inappropriate in front of my kid, who obviously was upset by her kid or he never would have cried in the first place. I don't believe I should have approached the kid on my own, but maybe if I had there would have been a quicker resolution than w/the mother.
My cousin who is a teacher told me to call the school but I don't think that is necessary unless there is further incident. On one hand I want to do it, just because I am so pissed about the mother's response, and because it was at school I feel it is kind of their jurisdiction. But we don't want to make a big deal out of it if the kids don't care anymore. The only thing is, if this kid does this to other kids, he needs to be put in check and clearly the mother isn't going to do it...... Ugh! Freaking brats! (And mine's no angel, I'm kinda surprised he cried instead of getting pissed off) But really, If my kid said that to another kid and I got wind of it, he'd get a talking to!
Sorry this is so long, but you know how it is with your kids, everything is important, and he's my first going to school, so I am just not sure how stuff like this is handled (if at all)....
You might not care for this response, but it is offered in the spirit of an objective party. This is the kind of situation where perception plays a major role. None of us were present during any of this, but I'll share some thoughts based on what you wrote:
-just as you perceived an attitude from the kid's mother, she may have perceived an attitude from you
-at 7 or 8 years old, your son may not be the most reliable source of information, and it's not clear from your post if you spoke to the teacher already about the incident - if there is more to your son's part in the story, he may be feeling like he will be in more trouble, so he is casting himself as the victim
-kids argue all the time but it doesn't have to be a terminal situation (never play with the kid again)
-your job is your son - it isn't your job to police other kids and their parents
-as an outsider, I'd have a bigger issue with how you are referring to this other family (snotty, freakin' brat) than anything your son or this other kid did.
I'm not trying to denigrate your parenting - there is no rule book and parents learn on the job as much as their kids. But please consider the effects of perception - yours, your son's, the other mom. Your son needs to develop resilience, which means that sometimes he's going to feel lousy about something that happened. But feeling lousy and getting over it will serve him better in the long run than having somebody take care of his problems for him.
i think you did the right thing mommyoftwo. its obvious the other parent doesn't spend enough time with her son because he has to taunt others to make himself feel better, and by her reaction to what happened.
i have a 4 year old son. its an automatic spanking if i catch him bullying another kid, taunting, etc. . ., or if his teacher tells me about it.
You might not care for this response, but it is offered in the spirit of an objective party. This is the kind of situation where perception plays a major role. None of us were present during any of this, but I'll share some thoughts based on what you wrote:
-just as you perceived an attitude from the kid's mother, she may have perceived an attitude from you
-at 7 or 8 years old, your son may not be the most reliable source of information, and it's not clear from your post if you spoke to the teacher already about the incident - if there is more to your son's part in the story, he may be feeling like he will be in more trouble, so he is casting himself as the victim
-kids argue all the time but it doesn't have to be a terminal situation (never play with the kid again)
-your job is your son - it isn't your job to police other kids and their parents
-as an outsider, I'd have a bigger issue with how you are referring to this other family (snotty, freakin' brat) than anything your son or this other kid did.
I'm not trying to denigrate your parenting - there is no rule book and parents learn on the job as much as their kids. But please consider the effects of perception - yours, your son's, the other mom. Your son needs to develop resilience, which means that sometimes he's going to feel lousy about something that happened. But feeling lousy and getting over it will serve him better in the long run than having somebody take care of his problems for him.
---i approached her very nicely, treading very lightly when bringing the subject up. Not in an aggressive or accusatory way. She was the one using very condescending language---"being too grown up to get involved and all"
----I would imagine he was reliable on this. I didn't talk to the teacher becuase it was the other boy who got in trouble and the teacher didn't even inform me of the situation. There wouldn't be any advantage to my son lying about this (unlike the prior incident when he scratched the other kid, the "cat/house" thing very well could have been a fabrication to cover his ass)
----I told him he can play with the boy if he talks it out with him and wants to play with him, as he has on many occasion. I'll just be watching a little more closely.
----my son is my job-yes, and when he asks me for help I'm not going to leave him out in the cold. He wanted a resolution to the situation, I have never had to approach a mother before regarding a child, and frankly after this lady's response, I doubt my son will ask me to ever again. Other parents can do what they please, but I don't have to respect them for it.
----The lady was snotty. She was condescending. A nice lady would have said, "well, I don't know what happened but I'll have a chat." Not "I can't get involved in such and such because I am a grown up" Yes, you can, it's your kid. If he punched my kid out in the dance school parking lot you can bet your ass she would be getting involved. And vice versa. And yes, kids can be freaking brats. There's no two ways around it. My child is no exception and I am definitely not acting like he is. But he apparently is not accustomed to kids being "mean" to him. I guess he better get used to it, but IMO, the world will be a better place if we can teach our kids to be just a little bit nicer to each other.
Taunting a crying kid is just unkind, simple as that. I wouldn't tolerate it from my kid, and the fact that the best this lady could do when approached was to say, "I can't get involved....." is fine, for her, I guess, but definitely not the way I'd handle it.
Thanks for your reply, though, I appreciate another perspective and I know my post was long. It is good to remain objective. Perhaps this lady had a bad day. Who knows?
i think you did the right thing mommyoftwo. its obvious the other parent doesn't spend enough time with her son because he has to taunt others to make himself feel better, and by her reaction to what happened.
i have a 4 year old son. its an automatic spanking if i catch him bullying another kid, taunting, etc. . ., or if his teacher tells me about it.
he doesn't start fights, but he will finish them.
This came up too. My DH told him that if someone hits him, he should hit back, then go tell a teacher everything. I don't know if that is the advice I'd like him to go by, but at this point I don't have anything better to offer him when it comes to the physical stuff. I guess I don't expect any other advice to come from a dad (at least his dad)
I would not be so quick to judge the other mother's parenting skills based on something your son said her son did, afterall your son injured another child and you wouldn't want that injured child's mom to judge your parenting skills harshly. How did that conversation go anyway - between you and the mom of the boy your son scratched. Was it civil? Was she mad your son hurt her son?
Last edited by FarNorthDallas; 12-15-2008 at 10:30 PM..
FarNorthDallas, I did not judge this mother's parenting skills (although I did judge her attitude). I said I would have handled it differently.
I did not have a conversation w/the mother of the child my son scratched. The school didn't tell me who the child was or who the mother is. However, if I had a conversation with the mother, it would have been civil on my end of course. I would have apologized for my son's behavior, and told her that I have spoken with my son about how it is inappropriate to put his hands on other children, and told her what my son said about the "game" the kids were playing, which he says the other kid suggested. I would confirm this with the other child. If my son was found to be lying, he would be in trouble for that too. If this mother approached me, I would have no problem apologizing, and as a matter of fact, I had instructed my son to apologize to the boy, even if it was a so-called game, as well as apologize to his teacher for inconveniencing her. I would end my conversation with an additional apology. (I know how mad I might be if another kid scratched my kid).
Even if she was really bit*hy, well, I'd have to suck it up as my son was in the wrong. Even if her son was in on the "game", he was the one that came out with scratches. And I'd have to apologize.
I am a reasonable person.
I just am not happy that:
a.) a kid made my son cry
b.) he then *allegedly* teased him about it
c.) the mother could not have cared less
I sympathize with your problem.
When my eldest son was in 8th grade, he and a friend were rollerblading home from school. They got to the house and all was well until an irate mother called MY phone (the SCHOOL gave her my number!!!) and informed me that the 2 boys had rollerbladed up to a group of little kids, one of which was her son and cussed and dropped the F bomb on them. Two other mothers called me and told me the same story. Know what I did? I made my son call each mother and apologize. I told his friend's mom what happened and she did nothing. I held my kid accountable for his disgusting behavior, while she let her's slide. Oh, well...
I have 3 boys - I told each one that if someone hits you, put 'em on the floor and ask questions later. None of them ended up being bullies, but the little posers left them alone. I never spoke to little kids...then they depend on mommy's assistance and their peers will call them names...mama's boys...LOL!
If a child is not behaving according to school rules, the school should have a talk with the parents and/or with the parents and the child present. I would never approach another parent about the behavior of their child. All parents think their child does no wrong, so the school objectively must intervene.
When my daughter was in day care, an Indian boy would scratch her face. it was incredible the first time I saw that. I saw the kid and he LOOKED like a wicked little devil. I wondered what the hell is parents were doing with the kid at home to make him strike out like that. The mother worked at the day care in another room. I took pictures of my daughters face and told them that if this didn't stop, if they didn't control the behavior of that kid, I'm going to contact the authorities. I told that they should not be allowing any kid to be harmed or scratched in this manner. One scratch came very close to her eye. Unbelievable. Every day, I ranted and raved about it. Very quickly they took care of the problem devoting more attention to that kid. Ridiculous. I nearly approached the mother about it, but decided against it.
You have to fight for your kids, but do it through the proper channels. Confronting the parents directly usually leads to negative results. Having the school confront them is another matter, as the kid is violating school rules. The school will talk to the parent, who has the primary responsibility for controlling their kid's behavior. If the parent can't control their kid's behavior, the school can take action. But as a parent, I would never approach another parent or that parent's kid directly.
If a child is not behaving according to school rules, the school should have a talk with the parents and/or with the parents and the child present. I would never approach another parent about the behavior of their child. All parents think their child does no wrong, so the school objectively must intervene.
When my daughter was in day care, an Indian boy would scratch her face. it was incredible the first time I saw that. I saw the kid and he LOOKED like a wicked little devil. I wondered what the hell is parents were doing with the kid at home to make him strike out like that. The mother worked at the day care in another room. I took pictures of my daughters face and told them that if this didn't stop, if they didn't control the behavior of that kid, I'm going to contact the authorities. I told that they should not be allowing any kid to be harmed or scratched in this manner. One scratch came very close to her eye. Unbelievable. Every day, I ranted and raved about it. Very quickly they took care of the problem devoting more attention to that kid. Ridiculous. I nearly approached the mother about it, but decided against it.
You have to fight for your kids, but do it through the proper channels. Confronting the parents directly usually leads to negative results. Having the school confront them is another matter, as the kid is violating school rules. The school will talk to the parent, who has the primary responsibility for controlling their kid's behavior. If the parent can't control their kid's behavior, the school can take action. But as a parent, I would never approach another parent or that parent's kid directly.
I guess you are right, Alexus. I could have called the school right when I heard about it. But it didn't seem a HUGE deal, and it wasn't, so I figured if I talked to the mother we could get the boys together and do what, at this point I am not sure, smooth things over with them, I guess.
Would I approach a parent again? Sadly, I am not sure. I can't really believe that this woman's reply is typical. I just can't imagine that being a very common response.
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