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And parents are more of an expert on their kids and they way they learn than you are.
Exactly!
And as for the whole discussion of homeschooling for religious reasons (although I homeschool for academic reasons not religious reasons) all I have to say is - whoa....
If a family chooses to homeschool because of values and/or religion, who are you to say that is wrong? For goodness sakes, please go back and retake American History, perhaps you have forgotten that settlers first arrived in America looking to practice their religion of choice freely. It is one of the basic tenets upon which our society is based.
As for my children, for example, they are taught both creationism and evolution. We discuss that everyone has a right to believe what they believe. We then discuss why evolution is the theory I believe, but we also investigate why others believe something different. Hopefully, my children will grow up to understand that people have many different beliefs and instead of that separating people, it is a fascinating journey to learn about those differences.
We are limited to how you know to teach and what you know to teach. Knowing my child doesn't guarantee I know what they need to learn or how it is best taught.
There is a difference between looking at what is being done and saying it's not working and knowing what will work. Most of us can see when something doesn't work but but figuring out what will work is another matter. This is where experience comes in.[/quote]
So, who has more experience with the child - the teacher who, in elementary school, sees the child for 1000 hours, or the parent who has seen the child year in and year out for 1000's of days?
This is where experience comes in, all right.
But, as it happens, sometimes parents don't know what is best for their student, and the teacher does. This is why many experienced teachers are better than a large majority of inexperienced teachers.
That I am a far more experienced teacher than you are is not proof that I know more about teaching than you, nor learning theory than you, even though to hear you tell it, it must.
Unfortunately, experience is not enough to do a damned thing. It is not experience that permits a veteran teacher to adjust - it is learning from the experience, and there are all too many veteran teachers and school administrators who mistake experience for expertise.
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A couple side notes:
matriculate, not metriculate;
One of the statistics that you seem to have missed is that homeschooling families, on average, are larger than public school families. The parents often get 2, 3, or 4 shots at a subject.
Another statistic - this one is one you are blatantly ignoring, apparently, rather than merely having missed it - is that there was ZERO difference in the performance of homeschool students whose parent or parents were certified teachers and those whose parents were not.
Oops. So much for that vaunted experience the classroom teacher gets!
Please.
With all due respect to the many teachers out there who genuinely have earned the right to the title "experts on learning" or "subject matter experts," there are all too many at every level who are neither one. How about the English teacher with whom I worked who claimed he or she was "uncomfortable" about teaching grammar? How about the several other English teachers in the same room who agreed with him or her? The foreign language teacher who didn't speak English very well and didn't speak Spanish very well, but was teaching Spanish? I could regrettably go on about this, but I'm sure you have examples enough in your own experience -- science teachers who didn't really "get" that whole "three laws of thermodynamics" idea, for example.
Yes, indeed. We entered public school this year for the first time. How about the "advanced math" teacher who couldn't figure out the 5th grade word problem? The third grade teacher who marked it incorrect when my daughter labeled you as both singular and plural?
One of my children did stay in public school because she had a gem of a teacher, but even the parents I came to know expressed that she is one of a kind. My other had the teacher who was clearly there collecting the pay check. She is of course back home homeschooling.
How about a follow-up discussion about why parents allow their children to languish with a mediocre (at best) teacher? Why waste a year of a child's life?
LOL, moreso than someone who has no education in education and whose only experience is their own children. There are no guarantees in life but you'd need good reason to consider yourself a better teacher than someone who actually has an education in education and years of experience. My gut tells me so isn't reason to believe you'd be a better teacher. Gut feelings are often wrong. They're, usually, based on emotion not logic. Sorry but having kids only proves the plumbing works. It says nothing about your abiltiy to teach. Not even teach your own kids. Parents don't always do what's best for their kids. Theo don't always know what's best for their kids. If you want evidence, look around you. There are a lot of spoiled, over catered to and out of control kids out there.
Even well meaning parents get it wrong. Take me, I never knew developing empathy was a milestone and I never realized my older daughter never did. So, she's in counseling now. I'd be an absolute fool to think I'm better at handling this because I'm the mom.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-21-2009 at 08:26 AM..
Gut feelings are often wrong. They're, usually, based on emotion not logic. Sorry but having kids only proves the plumbing works. It says nothing about your abiltiy to teach. Not even teach your own kids. Parents don't always do what's best for their kids. Theo don't always know what's best for their kids.
I agree with everything you wrote here.
I would go further, and note that a lot of people go by gut feelings, but believe that it was logic that got them there. Humans can rationalize almost anything. (And I am not so sure about the "almost".)
One of the problems is that spending years in front of a classroom doesn't say anything about one's ability to teach, either.
Teachers do not always do what is best for their students. They do not always know what's best for their students.
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And again, if being an experienced teacher gives one better insights than being a parent does, wouldn't there be a gap in performance between those children whose parents who have certification and the children whose parents who do not?
There is no such gap.
The parents with teacher certification get the same results as the homeschooling parents with no training as teachers.
Actually - I know one of the possible reasons: So many homeschooling families do not have only a parent doing any of the teaching - the phrase 'home schooling' discusses the base for the experience, not the location for all of it. Much of it is out in the world.
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But, for the sake of the discussion, if you were advising homeschooling parents about teaching their child, what books or material might you recommend to them to enhance the chances of their doing the job well or at least better?
I don't think homeschooling parents need to be experts in teaching; they only need to know how their own kids learn, and you can figure that out through trial and error and some independent reading into the matter.
Given the number of parenting books out there (some good, some bad) I find it difficult to believe that most modern parents, or at least those who take an interest in childhood development, don't realize that developing empathy is a milestone. I would think that most parents who care enough about wanting to teach their children would read up or discuss different options with others before, and during, their time teaching.
Content matter is a different issue. I think it would be highly difficult for most parents to successfully homeschool a high school student. The best public schools have teachers with advanced knowledge in very specific areas, and no one person has the expertise in all of those areas. Filling in the gaps with community college courses or homeschooling cooperatives, etc., doesn't fill that gap, or at least not (in my opinion) in a superior way to to a quality public school.
But at the elementary level? Teachers aren't experts in everything, either, and smart and motivated parents with some initiative can handle it just fine.
Given the number of parenting books out there (some good, some bad) I find it difficult to believe that most modern parents, or at least those who take an interest in childhood development, don't realize that developing empathy is a milestone. I would think that most parents who care enough about wanting to teach their children would read up or discuss different options with others before, and during, their time teaching.
I think I will stay away from the empathy discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist
Content matter is a different issue. I think it would be highly difficult for most parents to successfully homeschool a high school student. The best public schools have teachers with advanced knowledge in very specific areas, and no one person has the expertise in all of those areas. Filling in the gaps with community college courses or homeschooling cooperatives, etc., doesn't fill that gap, or at least not (in my opinion) in a superior way to to a quality public school.
Why do you think that taking the courses that the parents can't teach through other resources couldn't be better?
Is your definition of a 'quality public school' one whose standard of teaching is higher than the standard at a community college?
Does your opinion change if the courses taken are in the 'adult ed' program of a 4-year college? What if the courses are taken at Harvard's evening program? Or if the homeschool cooperative has teachers who are subject area experts with lots of teaching experience?
Hmmm... maybe I am missing the point, and the key phrase is "most parents, in which case, I'll have to pause to collect my thoughts. I know that most homeschool advocates insist that any parent that cares enough can homeschool successfully - but I guess I am unsure on that point.
I don't think homeschooling parents need to be experts in teaching; they only need to know how their own kids learn, and you can figure that out through trial and error and some independent reading into the matter.
Given the number of parenting books out there (some good, some bad) I find it difficult to believe that most modern parents, or at least those who take an interest in childhood development, don't realize that developing empathy is a milestone. I would think that most parents who care enough about wanting to teach their children would read up or discuss different options with others before, and during, their time teaching.
Content matter is a different issue. I think it would be highly difficult for most parents to successfully homeschool a high school student. The best public schools have teachers with advanced knowledge in very specific areas, and no one person has the expertise in all of those areas. Filling in the gaps with community college courses or homeschooling cooperatives, etc., doesn't fill that gap, or at least not (in my opinion) in a superior way to to a quality public school.
But at the elementary level? Teachers aren't experts in everything, either, and smart and motivated parents with some initiative can handle it just fine.
Do you think it would be acceptable to put teachers in the classroom with the same background you find acceptable from parents who homeschool? If not, why not?
Do you think it would be acceptable to put teachers in the classroom with the same background you find acceptable from parents who homeschool? If not, why not?
Unfortunately, this is not a yes or no answer. I have met many homeschool parents that are creative, dynamic "teachers". Would that translate into being a great public school teacher, who knows. But you have to remember that a parent that is homeschooling is already looking outside the box and I find that to be a quality I admire.
But on the flip side, the requirements for an education degree and certification are not a litmus test for being an effective teacher either. I personally think that education degrees are handed out a dime a dozen with not particularly challenging curriculum. Teacher candidates are not required to spend enough time "interning". And once in the classroom, new teachers are not given enough feedback to turn a "green" teacher into a stellar one. It is either sink or swim.
Now before being blasted on the last paragraph, I do have a master's in education and had a previous life teaching and working with teacher training programs and doing some administration. But as far as my homeschooling, the above matters not one iota. The skills I learned in my professional life do not translate to my homeschooling.
I actually seldom share the fact that I have a degree in education when discussing homeschool. I don't want to perpetuate the myth that you do need a degree in education to homeschool. Even having the degree, I feel very strongly that as long as a parent has a certain level of literacy, motivation, organization and curiosity, he or she will be an effective teacher for her own child - no degree needed.
But you don't have to look far to see that homeschooling is seen as an effective form of education. Harvard actively recruits homeschoolers because they are "self-directed" learners with "real life experience" who adapt well to the expectations of the University. And most Ivy League schools have information on the website about the process for homeschoolers to apply.
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There are no guarantees in life but you'd need good reason to consider yourself a better teacher than someone who actually has an education in education and years of experience. My gut tells me so isn't reason to believe you'd be a better teacher. Gut feelings are often wrong. They're, usually, based on emotion not logic. Sorry but having kids only proves the plumbing works. It says nothing about your abiltiy to teach. Not even teach your own kids. Parents don't always do what's best for their kids. Theo don't always know what's best for their kids. If you want evidence, look around you. There are a lot of spoiled, over catered to and out of control kids out there. 
