Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's why I think the only way to confront Russia is through economic attrition, not military confrontation. Wait till commodity prices retreat and Russia's treasury struggles to afford its vast military spending and pork barrel. Unfortunately this will take many decades to play out so too bad for Ukraine and Georgia.
What sanctions? You have a list of them? How is taking one of the largest resource exporters off the market going to cause commodities to retreat in price (and over 100 million consumers)? Please explain that one.
Also, why is it even the US's business? The president of Ukraine was ousted from power by a coup, Yanukovich is still the legitimate president. The US invaded Haiti when Aristide was overthrown, the US invaded Grenada because some college students were in danger of being taken hostage, Saudi Arabia sent 1000 troops into Bahrain to quell protesters, Israel invaded Lebanon; but some how Russia addressing an issue of its national security on its border is something the US needs to confront?
Calling someone who is trying to associate with the EU, democracy and personal freedom for neo-Nazis is pretty far out.
There are plenty of Russians in London, Berlin and Detroit - and they don`t start waving flags there either.
The Ukrainians understand that way out of their misery is not being a Soviet-satellite state - they have been there.
Let`s face it: The Russians are afraid of EU (US) influence in their backyard. Putin reputation as hard-baller depends on if he can take strong actions or not.
It is known that the US wants Russia disassembled, to cease to exist, this statement has been made b y numerous people in power like Cheney.
Knowing this, of course Russia is going to react, no different than Israel reacting knowing the goal of the countries around it is to wipe Israel off the map.
They are Nazi's, unless you are being obtuse to the information, those little crafting symbols you see throughout this revolution are reflective of the Nazi swastika. This about this; one of the first rules they made was to ban the Russian language, that should tell you the priorities of this group. If Miami all of a sudden banned English, what do you think the reaction would be?
And, something that no one seems to want address, not publicly at least; Yanukovich was the elected president, elected in a fair election. This was a coup, the parliament violated the Ukrainian constitution by removing him from power. The US has itself invaded countries to restore elected presidents after a coup, and has invaded under the pretext American citizens are in danger. What is good for the goose is good for the gander as they say. If the US would had a little bit less hypocrisy in its foreign policy, the US words may have been taken more seriously. But it is difficult to say on one hand, do on another, and expect any respect.
I hope Russia will pay a high price for it's doings in Ukraine.
There is a strong possibility she will.
If it stops with Crimea joining Russia or something similar then I do not think it will too bad. But if it continues into the eastern Ukraine, and I think it will, then great damage will happen to Russia's relationship in the west.
The thing is that this is a golden opportunity for Russia. If Russians cannot get the whole Ukraine then they will least get as much of the economic and strategic areas that they can. Plus there are many ethnic Russians in Ukraine so there is a emotional attachment to them.
However there is a huge risk that this will damage Russia's relations with Europe for a long time. During the insanity of the Bush II administration, relations between Europe and the United States reached a low point. Russia had a opportunity to try to reduce or maybe even eventually break up the European and American alliance. Instead Russia, beginning with things like cutting off gas in the middle of winter, trying to bully various European countries, the attack on Georgia and now the Ukraine seems to be driving the Europeans and North Americans closer together then before.
One question in this is China, who right now is friendly with Russia. But I do not think the Chinese for economic reasons alone, will choose relations with Russia over the North Americans and the Europeans as well as Japan and India. Russia risks being totally isolated from the great powers*** and no relationship with Syria and Iran is not going to make up for that.
Russia does have one ace in her hand and that is a strong leader like Vladimir Putin. He needs to tread carefully and get what Russia wants from Ukraine but without going too far to damage Russia's long term interests.
*** Its interesting that in addition to Europe and the Americans - China, India, Brazil and Japan etc. have not supported Russia on the issue of the breakaway regions of Georgia. I do not think that they will support Russia in Ukraine either.
They are Nazi's, unless you are being obtuse to the information, those little crafting symbols you see throughout this revolution are reflective of the Nazi swastika. This about this; one of the first rules they made was to ban the Russian language, that should tell you the priorities of this group. If Miami all of a sudden banned English, what do you think the reaction would be?
The question is... if English were banned in Miami would anyone notice
Why is Russia forever fighting the "Nazis"? Every year there is another "Red Army" parade in Red Square.
Reliving WW2 victory over and over and over again. Most of the rest of the planet has since moved on.
Maybe Ukrainians use Nazi symbols because they know how much it aggravates Russians.
It is known that the US wants Russia disassembled, to cease to exist, this statement has been made b y numerous people in power like Cheney.
Knowing this, of course Russia is going to react, no different than Israel reacting knowing the goal of the countries around it is to wipe Israel off the map.
They are Nazi's, unless you are being obtuse to the information, those little crafting symbols you see throughout this revolution are reflective of the Nazi swastika. This about this; one of the first rules they made was to ban the Russian language, that should tell you the priorities of this group. If Miami all of a sudden banned English, what do you think the reaction would be?
And, something that no one seems to want address, not publicly at least; Yanukovich was the elected president, elected in a fair election. This was a coup, the parliament violated the Ukrainian constitution by removing him from power. The US has itself invaded countries to restore elected presidents after a coup, and has invaded under the pretext American citizens are in danger. What is good for the goose is good for the gander as they say. If the US would had a little bit less hypocrisy in its foreign policy, the US words may have been taken more seriously. But it is difficult to say on one hand, do on another, and expect any respect.
So in other words you are saying that the people of the Ukraine that where seeking closer ties to the EU are Nazis? So the EU is nothing but Nazi`s??
I think that statement would insult even most Russians.
There has not been one incident yet of Russians in danger in the Ukraine. Putin is using the Russians in the Ukraine to promote his interests.
Look at the news this evening: They are starting to cry for the US for help already..just like they have done everywhere there is trouble.
The question is... if English were banned in Miami would anyone notice
Why is Russia forever fighting the "Nazis"? Every year there is another "Red Army" parade in Red Square.
Reliving WW2 victory over and over and over again. Most of the rest of the planet has since moved on.
Maybe Ukrainians use Nazi symbols because they know how much it aggravates Russians.
.
Yea, I doubt much notice in Miami.
Anyway, no, these are the same goofy symbols nazi groups all over use, from S. Africa to Europe, to the US, they all have some form of it. But given their extremist views, I do not blame anyone for taking heightened awareness of them, especially given the first thing they did was address the Russian language issue, which just shows what their motive is.
No, the rest of the planet has not moved on, many countries celebrate VE day. There are also observances of D-Day, the Pearl Harbor attack, the nukes on Japan, etc.
So in other words you are saying that the people of the Ukraine that where seeking closer ties to the EU are Nazis? So the EU is nothing but Nazi`s??
I think that statement would insult even most Russians.
There has not been one incident yet of Russians in danger in the Ukraine. Putin is using the Russians in the Ukraine to promote his interests.
Look at the news this evening: They are starting to cry for the US for help already..just like they have done everywhere there is trouble.
The core, organized group, small but very well organized, are aligned with the ideals of the Nazi party, even elevated Bandera to the rank of national hero. The closer ties are just a ruse, they just want power. As you may have noticed, they overthrew the Ukrainian gov, even after Yanukovich conceded terms to them, they were not after concessions, they were after power.
That statement does not insult most Russians (I know this very well).
When the US invaded Grenada, there was no evidence of Americans in danger. When the US invaded Haiti, there was no evidence of Americans in danger. When the US invaded Iraq, there was no evidence of Americans in danger. When America intervened in the Balkans, there was no evidence of Americans in danger. When America intervened in Libya, there was no evidence of Americans in danger; need I to go on?
No, the rest of the planet has not moved on, many countries celebrate VE day. There are also observances of D-Day, the Pearl Harbor attack, the nukes on Japan, etc.
Where I live... the world has moved on.
Observation of an historical fact is one thing... celebration is quite another.
Almost 70 years later... it's time to stop the Red Square victory parades.
It's also time to bury Lenin's corpse.
.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
