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Old 03-02-2014, 11:27 AM
 
351 posts, read 500,032 times
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Who's going to help Ukraine since it has no oil?
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:27 AM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,826,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcyrus View Post
Where I live... the world has moved on.

Observation of an historical fact is one thing... celebration is quite another.

Almost 70 years later... it's time to stop the Red Square victory parades.

It's also time to bury Lenin's corpse.


.
I agree, but this is deviating off the topic.

Yes, I agree to move on, but still must be respectful and observe the numerous WW2 survivors that are still alive, as well as observe the most destructive war in history. I agree lamenting on and on does not get anywhere, but ignoring it because it happened 70 years ago is not right either. But the day will come when the way it is observed is out dated, like Russia does not celebrate the 1812 war, and the US does not celebrate the Spanish-American war. Perhaps these observances will just change into something different, an "anti-conflict" day or something, a "do not let happen again" day.

I agree, I thing Russia should bury Lenin, and depose of these statues everywhere except where it is determined to be of historical significance; a country cannot erase the past, but they do not have to embrace it either.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:29 AM
 
Location: NYC-LBI-PHL
2,678 posts, read 2,101,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Yea, I doubt much notice in Miami.
the first thing they did was address the Russian language issue, which just shows what their motive is.
Why so focused on the language issue? People should speak the language of the nation they live in. Russians living in Ukraine should know the Ukraine language. Their children should learn it in the schools. Doesn't seem at all outrageous to me.
It's more like the equivalent of French being the language of France, Spanish of Spain, etc. You live there you should speak the language or you are a second class citizen. Russia has abused Ukraine before during and after Socialism. Why defend such an oppressor?
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:31 AM
 
351 posts, read 500,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vall View Post
Why so focused on the language issue? People should speak the language of the nation they live in. Russians living in Ukraine should know the Ukraine language. Their children should learn it in the schools. Doesn't seem at all outrageous to me.
It's more like the equivalent of French being the language of France, Spanish of Spain, etc. You live there you should speak the language or you are a second class citizen. Russia has abused Ukraine before during and after Socialism. Why defend such an oppressor?
Yes, become the world policeman

In fact, they overthrew the rightfully and democratically elected president, so
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Vik
401 posts, read 534,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
The core, organized group, small but very well organized, are aligned with the ideals of the Nazi party, even elevated Bandera to the rank of national hero. The closer ties are just a ruse, they just want power. As you may have noticed, they overthrew the Ukrainian gov, even after Yanukovich conceded terms to them, they were not after concessions, they were after power.

That statement does not insult most Russians (I know this very well).

When the US invaded Grenada, there was no evidence of Americans in danger. When the US invaded Haiti, there was no evidence of Americans in danger. When the US invaded Iraq, there was no evidence of Americans in danger. When America intervened in the Balkans, there was no evidence of Americans in danger. When America intervened in Libya, there was no evidence of Americans in danger; need I to go on?
But you still imply that the forces tying the Ukraine and Europe are based on the ideas of the Nazi`s??

I live in a country where invasion is defined as a foreign country using military force to establish and stay in that country. Hitler-Germany invaded my country. His intentions was to stay.

I don`t see the US staying in any of those countries you have mentioned. We all know there is different opinions as to why the US invaded mentioned countries. I really don`t think the world would be a better place with Taliban, Khaddafi and Sadaam at force.

But we all have seen it before. Crisis happens - someone starts crying for help - the US jumps in. I hope they stay out.

Nazi`s: they are a marginal bunch of weirdo`s not to be reckoned with. Nowhere.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:36 AM
 
Location: NYC-LBI-PHL
2,678 posts, read 2,101,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty All View Post
Yes, become the world policeman

In fact, they overthrew the rightfully and democratically elected president, so
It's not becoming the world policeman. It's maintaining a national identity.
Are you really defending the corrupt Yanukovych?
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:38 AM
 
26,784 posts, read 22,561,271 times
Reputation: 10040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcyrus View Post
Where I live... the world has moved on.

Observation of an historical fact is one thing... celebration is quite another.

Almost 70 years later... it's time to stop the Red Square victory parades.

It's also time to bury Lenin's corpse.


.
Remember what Boxus said?

"It is known that the US wants Russia disassembled, to cease to exist, this statement has been made b y numerous people in power like Cheney. "

So there is a reason why they still have the Red Square victory parades and why they still don't bury Lenin's corpse.
And it's up to them to decide when they are ready to do that.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:39 AM
 
20 posts, read 18,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post

I agree, but this is deviating off the topic.

It's the heart of this topic.

Revolutionary Ukrainians just toppled multiple statues of Lenin still standing in the Ukraine.

Millions of Ukrainians were starved to death by Bolsheviks. It's called Holodomor...
anyone who wants to know the roots of this conflict should google that term.

.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:39 AM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,826,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty All View Post
Who's going to help Ukraine since it has no oil?
The prize for the West is much greater than oil; the goal of the West, and since even the times of the European monarchs, was the destruction of Russia. Ukraine is a grand prize in this game.

Problem is, this came at a bad time; the EU and US are broke, the world is coming out of a huge economic downturn, and Ukraine really has nothing to offer other than geography in this game, and 46 million poor people and a near bankrupt economy. Oh yes, the opposing player in this game is not some rag tagged third world country far from the EU and US, it is Russia; largest country by area, ninth largest by population (largest population in Europe), sixth largest economy, third largest military (and not the paper tiger Iraq was when they were the fourth largest), large resource exporter, and sitting on the US and EU border.

Do I want my standard of living to decline for Ukraine? Heck no, that is an issue between Russia and Ukraine, I do not even think the EU should be involved. As for NATO, they could not even sustain a three month no-fly zone in Libya (without the US heavily resupplying them), let alone take on Russia. NATO except for France, the UK, and US, are nothing more than defensive oriented military's, incapable of offensive operations, especially against Russia.

Also, any engagement will be politically damaging for the EU and US, politicians look out for their own elections first before anything else. I do not think many citizens are in favor of taking a downturn in their standard of living, and even losing their job, over Ukraine, which all in all, is 46 million poor people, many of which want the EU passport just so they can flee to west Europe and live off the welfare system.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:46 AM
 
20 posts, read 18,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post


Remember what Boxus said?

"It is known that the US wants Russia disassembled, to cease to exist, this statement has been made b y numerous people in power like Cheney. "

So there is a reason why they still have the Red Square victory parades and why they still don't bury Lenin's corpse.
And it's up to them to decide when they are ready to do that.

The Bolsheviks not only starved to death millions of Ukrainians... they also killed millions of Russians.

The resurrection of Russia that began with the fall of the USSR is not complete.

Russian Orthodox Churches have been rebuilt and Russia's murdered Tsar and royal family have been canonized. But Russia's horrific Bolshevik past is still being glorified.

Russia is now double-minded. The Bible says double-mindedness causes instability.
Russia has no clear vision of her future. I would not be surprised if Russia loses this "war."


.
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