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And it's quite obvious that both Russia and the NATO feel like the Cold War never really ended.
Who is more to blame here, I sometimes doubt.
But still what's going to happen (if it's really going to happen) makes me upset.
And I don't want to hear sw1992 arguments. He lives in Kharkiv, not in the Crimea. He has legal governor and a legal mayor. They are against the flags of a foreign state.
Yatsenuk is not a far-right. Why not to deal with him? Why such hysteria?
Yatsenuk is not a far-right. Why not to deal with him?
He is a puppet and he wasn't elected democratically.
He was elected by these armed commandos who made decision for the all ukrainian people. No one asked opinion of ukrainian people outside Kiev.
One of radical group of the maidan can't speak for the whole country.
I'm sort of confused for a moment here. Is Crimea the focal point that people think Russia would enter a conflict with Ukraine with?
Aren't the Ukraine protests sort of a separate issue?
I ask because I read that Crimea used to be apart of Russia but was given to Ukraine but still has heavy Russian ties. Why doesn't Ukraine just give Crimea back to Russia so that Russia doesn't have to worry about their navy base and Ukrainian-Russian citizens? If Russia really wanted to invade wouldn't they do something more in relation to Kiev rather than Crimea?
I'm probably either very ignorant or in the minority, but the news media here in America seems like it's trying to make this out into something like a 2nd Cold War or something. I don't trust American news enough to think that the US and Europe is somehow on a crash course with Russia in a fight over Ukraine.
I am not Russian but I think Crimea is an emotional issue for many Russians.
For hundreds of years Crimea was the home of the Crimea Khanate who led slave raids against Russia and Poland-Lithuania and sold the slaves to the hated Ottoman Empire. So the defeat of the Khanate and the annexing of the Crimea was far more emotionally important then just adding another piece of territory to Russia.
Beyond that, Crimea is the home of the Black Sea Fleet with its many historic battles against the Ottomans and also against the Axis in WW2. Today many ethnic Russians still live in the Crimea.
And finally, Crimea is a warm spot for many Russians as a vacation land of many beaches and tourist areas.
Note that Russia did not (yet) occupy the eastern part of Ukraine and appears to have limited the annexation to Crimea. I think Putin may try to cut a deal with Obama whereby Russia will be allowed to keep Crimea and Ukraine everything else, plus a guarantee that Ukraine will never be admitted into the EU and NATO.
Obama once again will end up looking like a weak and unprepared leader just like his predecessor and Angela Merkel an inutile enforcer in Eastern Europe. Where are leaders like Reagan and Thatcher when we need them?
Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 03-01-2014 at 05:21 PM..
I'm sort of confused for a moment here. Is Crimea the focal point that people think Russia would enter a conflict with Ukraine with?
Aren't the Ukraine protests sort of a separate issue?
I ask because I read that Crimea used to be apart of Russia but was given to Ukraine but still has heavy Russian ties. Why doesn't Ukraine just give Crimea back to Russia so that Russia doesn't have to worry about their navy base and Ukrainian-Russian citizens?
Oh but because all the fun will be gone from relations that Russia and Ukraine enjoyed for the last twenty years or so. Fun as in "We'll cut off the gas for you" and "we'll kick your fleet out in response or we'll hike the lease price." That sort of thing.
Instead, it'll be Russia's "We'll hike the price of gas for you if you don't comply" and Ukraine will have to respond... how?
Since the Ukraine is only gained independence in 1991 one could argue that all of the Ukraine has been "part of Russia".
No, not really. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, not Russia. ( Otherwise the fact that Khrushev has gifted Crimea to Ukraine back in 1954 wouldn't make any sense. He transferred it from Russia ( which was as well part of the Soviet Union, to Ukraine.)
Ukraine, however, used to belong to Russian Empire, and history of Russian Crimea goes back to those times.
I really wish at this point that Russia will make good on its threat to pull out its ambassador to the US. That might just be the act that incurs the ire of the American public and force its hand. However I think Putin is too cunning to approve such a move.
I really wish at this point that Russia will make good on its threat to pull out its ambassador to the US. That might just be the act that incurs the ire of the American public and force its hand. However I think Putin is too cunning to approve such a move.
Don't rush the events.
Everything will happen in a due time.
Don't rush the events.
Everything will happen in a due time.
Agree. Even during the cold war, the US did not respond when the Warsaw Pact crushed the Hungarian revolution and Polish Solidarity movement. Even JFK was forced to pull back on Turkey to resolve the Cuban missile crisis. Eventually the USSR unraveled on its own accord.
Unfortunately for Ukraine (and Georgia), it is now a pawn and will look forward to decades of Russia menacing at its borders as well as pwning a third of its country. But eventually Russia too will unravel both when oil prices will have retreated and due to the huge costs of its military aggressions. Crimea, Ossetia, Chechnya will break away from its orbit.
What makes this more complicated than the cold war however is China's aggression in the Pacific and a lame response by America will signal to Korea, India, Japan and Taiwan that it is a weak and unreliable ally.
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