Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The massive welfare states in Europe require workers to support an aging population and the immigrants are there to provide the manpower necessary. The welfare state is simply unsustainable without the massive influx of immigrants. The influx of immigrants has little to do with America (don't know how this got in there) and more to do with the untenable welfare state and the negative population growth of native Europeans.
Manpower?????? For what???
Did you know that 6milllion Spaniards are unemployed?
Did you know 50% of the youth here is unemployed?
Did you know 1/4 of the spanish population is living in the poverty?
Did you know Spain (a tiny country) got around 8 million immigrants?
A lower population can be replaced with technology, you are able to produce the same with 500 men making cars by hand or using 50 engineers in a factory with robots(it's an example, nothing accurate). This is the way in which modern countries has to evolve, less population, better education and technology.
But Spanish economy is based on services. I guess you are talking about the past. Some relatives had a shoe factory during the years of "desarrollismo" (fast development) promoted by Franco and Opus ministers. 45 women, mostly minors from Andalusia and Extremadura, and no "papers", no social security. At that time, we had the peseta we could devalue, almost no taxes, almost no civil servants and Spain was the tenth industrial power in the world in 1975...
The factory closed in 1983 because it was not sustainable in the new order (democracy autonomy, etc)..
Of course, back then it was a "corporative" (INI) and the private sector was anarchic..."cutre salchichero" (ghetto), but it worked.
Now Spain's economy is based on services; hostelry, services, agriculture, those are man-intensive industries and the descendants of the rural immigration that came during the 50's and 60's won't work if it interferes with their "botellón"...so immigrants are needed again...
Who would take care of our elders if there were no Peruvian and Ecuatorian women? Do you think that people receiving PER and a cortijo and a few olive trees will work until sundown for 4€ am hour? No. Do you think that any Spanish will work picking apples or strawberries in Lerida on in El Ejido? No. but Africans will.
I like Africans from Africa, to tell you the truth, problem is that labour inspections are capable of closing you down if you hire undocumented and many employers won't hire because old ladies from the countryside are not used to see black people, only in movies.
Do you think that "unemployed" Spanish will work 70 hours a week in a restaurant at the coast? No.
Spain is in no way, shape, or form a third world country. It may be living a historically difficult time with massive unemployment (as is the rest of Southern Europe) and a very high percentage of its population in economic difficulty but Spaniards still have a standard of living and access to services that 90% of the worlds population doesn't even know. Listen I am an American transplant living in Italy in all of Europe including Germany and England (do not get me started on Germany I was just there all I will tell you is they say unemployment is 5% yet many jobs now start off with a ridiculous 400 euro a month basis and at least 1/4 of Germans are in economic difficulty) are experiencing "historically difficult economic times."
Please enough with this "Europeans are just lazy demanding 4 months off a year" crap! I know scores and scores of people who have worked their whole entire life here in Italy just trying to get by and would and are more than happy to do any job including cleaning toilets but trust me not even that is available right now. I know the situation in Spain is very similar and official figures have the numbers as worse off than Italy although even that is hard to believe.
Lastly, the Europeans gave a world to the world, where do you all think the culture of the "West" came from. Nowhere in Europe is third world even with all the economic difficulty the continent is in.
But Spain has had not so good politicians in the last years.
Four months of vacation? never.
I have to read and hear that Spaniards are lazy, not nice after a long hard working day in my case, but after that fame and bad reputation Spanish workers are required in other countries to work abroad (with the same salary as locals, not lower) the most recent example is the new Prince George's Nanny in England. Even Spanish kids spend long school journeys. It is probably the reason because after some years they dislike and give up school.
What is bad in Spain is the system, bureaucracy, politicians, etc. Not people and their lifestyle.
What is bad is the inferiority complex of the Spanish people, as Canovas said "no one wants to be Spanish" (only garrulos from Real Madrid and La Roja).
Most of the people, not me, jumped into a wagon in 1978 that ended up in the kitchen of a Club House for the Rich (EEC).
First rule: never join a club for rich people if you are dead poor.
Second rule: be proud of your culture.
Spain should have preserved the peseta, now Spain would not be so indebted with German money and the bank of Spain would only need to devalue the peseta, just as Paquito did 10 times.
The Constitution of 1978 must be scrapped, self.governments have to be scrapped, local law has to be scrapped, 2/3 of public administration is redundant, etc...but NOBODY will do it. They don't have what they need to do it.
Spanish always worked abroad, nobody remembers the 3 million that went to north Europe during the 60's...and earning the same that locals? That's a good one.
Watch the movie: Un franco 14 pesetas.
And please, the unemployment figure is not for real, this is not a serious country with serious statistics. If we had that unemployment, we would be killing each other, just as in 1936.
As Paquito said many times, "Spanish and democracy are not compatible"...he was a little correct, only a little..
There is not a single third-world country in Europe, not even second-world...
Europe has always had ups and downs, for thousands of years. Spain has been broke several times in history, nothing really new.
What I always wonder about the youth unemployment figure of 50% or so. Youth is people up to age 20 or so. Since when are the young expected to have jobs? Traditionally many of those young people attend university or do some apprenticeship at that age.
Plus, why does everyone assume being a typical first-world, i.e. Western country is the goal? We are doing so many things wrong in the West, we often have more money, but we often lack purpose.
If a country or culture is not interested in this crazy, destructive, unsustainable global monopoly game, so be it. There is nothing wrong with being agricultural and relaxed. There is no law that says one has to strive to be the most productive or efficient in the world. It is enough to simply be alive and get by. (Not that this were the case in Spain, it is just a general remark.)
But Spanish economy is based on services. I guess you are talking about the past. Some relatives had a shoe factory during the years of "desarrollismo" (fast development) promoted by Franco and Opus ministers. 45 women, mostly minors from Andalusia and Extremadura, and no "papers", no social security. At that time, we had the peseta we could devalue, almost no taxes, almost no civil servants and Spain was the tenth industrial power in the world in 1975...
The factory closed in 1983 because it was not sustainable in the new order (democracy autonomy, etc)..
Of course, back then it was a "corporative" (INI) and the private sector was anarchic..."cutre salchichero" (ghetto), but it worked.
Now Spain's economy is based on services; hostelry, services, agriculture, those are man-intensive industries and the descendants of the rural immigration that came during the 50's and 60's won't work if it interferes with their "botellón"...so immigrants are needed again...
Who would take care of our elders if there were no Peruvian and Ecuatorian women? Do you think that people receiving PER and a cortijo and a few olive trees will work until sundown for 4€ am hour? No. Do you think that any Spanish will work picking apples or strawberries in Lerida on in El Ejido? No. but Africans will.
I like Africans from Africa, to tell you the truth, problem is that labour inspections are capable of closing you down if you hire undocumented and many employers won't hire because old ladies from the countryside are not used to see black people, only in movies.
Do you think that "unemployed" Spanish will work 70 hours a week in a restaurant at the coast? No.
You're what we call in Spain a "latiguero", you say Spanish people don't want to work, but what you really mean is that
"Spanish people don't want to work from dawn to dusk, for a misery salary and I want "droit du Seigneur" to be back again"
You are happy with the massive immigration, cheap workforce, hope you get what you want, but be careful what you wish for.
What is bad is the inferiority complex of the Spanish people, as Canovas said "no one wants to be Spanish" (only garrulos from Real Madrid and La Roja).
Most of the people, not me, jumped into a wagon in 1978 that ended up in the kitchen of a Club House for the Rich (EEC).
First rule: never join a club for rich people if you are dead poor.
Second rule: be proud of your culture.
Spain should have preserved the peseta, now Spain would not be so indebted with German money and the bank of Spain would only need to devalue the peseta, just as Paquito did 10 times.
The Constitution of 1978 must be scrapped, self.governments have to be scrapped, local law has to be scrapped, 2/3 of public administration is redundant, etc...but NOBODY will do it. They don't have what they need to do it.
Spanish always worked abroad, nobody remembers the 3 million that went to north Europe during the 60's...and earning the same that locals? That's a good one. Watch the movie: Un franco 14 pesetas.
And please, the unemployment figure is not for real, this is not a serious country with serious statistics. If we had that unemployment, we would be killing each other, just as in 1936.
As Paquito said many times, "Spanish and democracy are not compatible"...he was a little correct, only a little..
I am not still sure if you agree with me or not...lol.
Do you really think that Spanish National Team suporters and Real Madrid ones are garrulos? that sounds a bit old and outdated.
About the film, yes, very good indeed, that village Uzwil reminds me to Spanish not too many years ago: too many factories and not difficult at all to start working for them. There will be a second part this month "Dos francos 40 pesetas"
I'm sorry but the question in this thread is just ridicilous and retarded... Of course Spain is not a 3rd world country, how can you even ask something so stupid?
I'm sorry but the question in this thread is just ridicilous and retarded... Of course Spain is not a 3rd world country, how can you even ask something so stupid?
It is interesting, I live in neighboring Portugal, which has similar economic problems. There seem to be a lot of myths around. Locals seem to think that the Iberian peninsula is oh so terrible, while Central Europe is oh so great.
I remember when I told a Portuguese acquaintance that there is corruption in Germany as well, involving known organizations like Siemens, ADAC, etc., and he was really surprised. People seem to think corruption exists only down here, not to mention that perceived corruption is much bigger than it actually is. Seems people down here want their two countries to be worse than they actually are.
Also, in Spain they still have a monarchy, whose reputation however has been severely damaged over the past couple of years due to various scandals.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"Dos francos 40 pesetas"