Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The amount of screen door aluminum a Jehovah Witness eats in a year.
Some religious sects/cults or whatever you want to call them get no respect regardless of where they are. That joke has been around for who knows how long and I first heard it when I was a kid.
I have often wondered just what role the ROC plays in Russian society. It seems many Russian people are very devout at least in part. Many more take the buffet approach such as my wife seemed too. It's way more influential in than in the west. This makes me need to ask some questions.
1. Why do Russian people seem to be so much more devout than others?
Russians to me seem to be a very close knit people. They've endured horrible times together and such things will drive people towards things like a religion.
2. Is the church an instrument of the Russian government?
It has in the past been used to control not just Russians but many peoples. I think it is here. It's definitely subject to the government for survivals sake.
So what if people make fun of them? People make fun of fat/ugly/stupid people all over the world, it's a staple of comedy, does that mean that those people should be banned? Also by banning JW it only strengthens their faith and cause, it means in their eyes the end times are near and Putin is the antiChrist. Just let these people live in peace. Sure outlawing people from preaching door to door is fair, but if a group of people want to congregate and have discussions about the Bible, what's the harm? Islam is a much harsher religion, yet it's supported by the state. And what of others such as babtists, Pentecostal, charismatic, Catholics, lutherans, etc. if orthodoxy is the one and only true faith of Christianity, then it should be pretty easy to have a debate with these people convert them over, but the thing is many people are alienated by Orthodoxy because the sermons and songs are in old Church Slavonic, a language that the average person doesn't understand and can't grow spiritually because of that. So they go to these smaller churches where they can participate in church activities rather than just watch from afar and be surrounded by strangers.
I've been hearing that there's been a lot of persecution/discrimination towards Protestants in Russia, particularly with Jehova Witness, but also others such as babtists, Pentecostals, Lutherens and even Catholics, and that this mainly stems from the huge influence the Orthodox Church has on the government. Is this true? Is Russia slowing turning into a theocracy like Iran is? Is this something that average Russians want? Is this something that the Orthodox Church wants? Also why won't the Russian Orthodox Church recognize the Ukrainian Orthodox Church? If the Serbs can have their own Church why not Ukraine?
Nothing new. Russia thinks that it's THE god's authority. The whole existence of Russia is based on two battles; Alexander Nevski who defeated the Finnish/Swedish/Norwegian Catholic scum at the battle of the Neva which Alexander got his name and reputation.
Some years later Baltic Germans decided that these Eastern Slavs aren't fit for controlling themselves.
The Baltic Germans gathered a big army with the help of the Baltic people, and were defeated at the battle of the ice.
Today Orthodox Russia sees itself as the 4th Rome, higher than decadent Catholic or Protestant heretics.
Alexander Nevski lived and died, but maybe he just faced two bandits.
Yes, it's true.
It's not really about Russia "being a theocracy like Iran," (don't forget that Russia still hosts Islam as well, and has a "chief Mufti" lol,) but it's more about the "security of state."
Russian Orthodoxy is a historic trademark of Russians; their culture (for good or bad) is intertwined with this particular branch of Christianity, and current government leans on this church, while giving it support in return ( as it was in Tzarist Russia before 1917.)
Now religion is not as an *innocent* subject as it seems and most of the churches you list here - Baptist, Pentecostals and Jehovah Witness are American churches. Not only they have their own brand of Christianity (that contradicts some tenets of Russian Orthodox Church,) but they might serve as a host of anti-governmental activities in Russia. And that's what I think is REALLY behind the recent crackdown on foreign churches in Russia. The majority of Russians don't mind I think, because as I've said Orthodoxy is their national identification, as Catholicism is for Italians for example.
Now when it comes to Ukraine - it's all about the numerous attempts of Ukraine to go its separate way, which doesn't work very well with Church, since originally Russian Orthodoxy started in Kiev of course.
Not too many people would shed a tear for the JW's. They border on being a cult.
Catholicism is not only for Italians, it's for Poles, as well. Lutherans: Scandinavians, Balts, not to mention Germans. I think allowing "foreign" churches would be ok, as long as they don't proselytize, and try to convert Orthodox and others. The Jehovah's Witnesses are very aggressive in that regard, going door to door, which the others don't do. I think, if they're serving a local constituency, like Poles and other Catholics in Russia, Balts in Russia, and so forth, then it's legitimate. The Pentacostals have been around since Soviet times. I have no idea how they got in there, in the first place. It rather looked like an excuse to get people out, under the guise of religious persecution.
You might be interested to know that there are some Native American "nations" that don't allow any church people of any sort into their communities. For pretty much the same reasons that Russia isn't looking too keenly on some of these churches.
And btw, if you're going to mention Islam as one of Russia's historical religions, don't forget Buddhism.
Not too many people would shed a tear for the JW's. They border on being a cult.
Catholicism is not only for Italians, it's for Poles, as well. Lutherans: Scandinavians, Balts, not to mention Germans. I think allowing "foreign" churches would be ok, as long as they don't proselytize, and try to convert Orthodox and others. The Jehovah's Witnesses are very aggressive in that regard, going door to door, which the others don't do. I think, if they're serving a local constituency, like Poles and other Catholics in Russia, Balts in Russia, and so forth, then it's legitimate. The Pentacostals have been around since Soviet times. I have no idea how they got in there, in the first place. It rather looked like an excuse to get people out, under the guise of religious persecution.
You might be interested to know that there are some Native American "nations" that don't allow any church people of any sort into their communities. For pretty much the same reasons that Russia isn't looking too keenly on some of these churches.
And btw, if you're going to mention Islam as one of Russia's historical religions, don't forget Buddhism.
Yeah the Pentecostals and Baptists have been in Russia for a very long time, my parents actually left the soviet union in 1989 as Baptist refugees (only in name though, they weren't persecuted at the time) and many people in my family have faced persecution because of their faith. Also these churches have little to do with the US, one time though I remember that my dad visited st. Petersburg back in the 80s because some American preacher went there and he wanted to meet him (forgot his name, but apparently really famous) and hundreds if not thousands of people went there to hear his sermon, but in the end my dad and a bunch of others got offended by him, he said that the preacher came to Russia thinking it was a Godless state with no Christians and that he converted them all over to baptism, but they already were all Baptists for many years. Also Russian American protestants don't interact with Americans that much, even as much as considering American Christians as being fake and worldly. So just because that these Russians don't follow Orthodoxy, doesn't mean that they are foreign agents, or being brainwashed to become one. And it doesn't mean they don't recognize the Orthodox church either, my mom constantly listens to YouTube videos of Orthodox monks and many people visit Orthodox church's from time to time.
No, as I understand it, Dugin is widely known in very narrow circles, and he is not taken seriously. Something like Zhirinovsky, but on a smaller scale. Limonov has much more influence and fame in nationalist circles.
Real experts (who form the opinion), it's Soloviev, Satanovsky, etc. Russians, but Jews.
That was always my impression that Dugin was someone marginal (quite a few people referred to him as "clown" in comments,) and yes, I know all these "talking heads" - Soloviev, Satanovsky, Kurginyan et al.
Usually I don't have enough of patience to listen to them either)))
P.S. But some Americans use Dugin's name с придыханием, as if he is some heavy-weight. Apparently they read the kind of journalism that sounds "hot," but shouldn't be taken seriously, really.
Not too many people would shed a tear for the JW's. They border on being a cult.
Catholicism is not only for Italians, it's for Poles, as well.
I know that, and that's why Poland has been used historically as a weapon against Russia. Religion ( or rather Church) is a far more serious thing when it comes to politics than many guess.
Quote:
Lutherans: Scandinavians, Balts, not to mention Germans.
Yes I know, and you can measure the success of each and every country in modern times depending on the church they belong to.
Quote:
I think allowing "foreign" churches would be ok, as long as they don't proselytize, and try to convert Orthodox and others. The Jehovah's Witnesses are very aggressive in that regard, going door to door, which the others don't do. I think, if they're serving a local constituency, like Poles and other Catholics in Russia, Balts in Russia, and so forth, then it's legitimate. The Pentacostals have been around since Soviet times. I have no idea how they got in there, in the first place. It rather looked like an excuse to get people out, under the guise of religious persecution.
So there you go. These "conversions" (into different religions and ties to foreign churches) bring the host of many other possibilities, as with Trojan horse. Russian gov. is very much aware of that since Soviet times, keeping in mind the very Baptist churches and the Synagogues lol)))
Quote:
You might be interested to know that there are some Native American "nations" that don't allow any church people of any sort into their communities. For pretty much the same reasons that Russia isn't looking too keenly on some of these churches.
Yes-yes.
Quote:
And btw, if you're going to mention Islam as one of Russia's historical religions, don't forget Buddhism.
Ruth I'm sorry - you are tuned to those things ( the indigenous people of Siberia and all,) while I barely remember about their existence))))
To me Islam is simply more visible, more important ( in terms of influence on events) and even Tatars converted to Islam from Buddhism, lol.
I know that, and that's why Poland has been used historically as a weapon against Russia. Religion ( or rather Church) is a far more serious thing when it comes to politics that many guess.
Yes I know, and you can measure the success of each and every country in modern times depending on the church they belong to.
So there you go. These "conversions" (into different religions and ties to foreign churches) bring the host of many other possibilities, as with Trojan horse. Russian gov. is very much aware of that since Soviet times, keeping in mind the very Baptist churches and the Synagogues lol)))
You might be interested to know that there are some Native American "nations" that don't allow any church people of any sort into their communities. For pretty much the same reasons that Russia isn't looking too keenly on some of these churches.
Ruth I'm sorry - you re tuned to those things ( the indigenous people of Siberia and all,) while I barely remember about their existence))))
To me Islam is simply more visible, more important ( in terms of influence on events) and even Tatars converted to Islam from Buddhism, lol.
A few years after 1991, Bahais from Alaska (Native followers of Bahai-ism, as they call it in Russia) got to the northern regions, including Yakutia, and enjoyed a measure of popularity in Yakutia. But of course, a lot of this had to do with the fact that some people would get invited to visit Alaska. But it was also simply because it was something new. Also, there was an anti-alcohol component, so some people viewed that as something useful.
Tatars converted to Islam from Buddhism? I wasn't aware that the Tatars had ever been Buddhist. Do you mean the Tatarstan Tatars? Buddhism has a following across Russia, but mainly in Petersburg, Moscow, and around the Baikal region. A friend of mine who used to spend 6 months in Dharamsala, India, every year, working for the Dalai Lama's government, said big tour buses of mostly Russian Buddhists would arrive for the two weeks each year that the DL gives a series of public lectures.
A few years after 1991, Bahais from Alaska (Native followers of Bahai-ism, as they call it in Russia) got to the northern regions, including Yakutia, and enjoyed a measure of popularity in Yakutia. But of course, a lot of this had to do with the fact that some people would get invited to visit Alaska. But it was also simply because it was something new. Also, there was an anti-alcohol component, so some people viewed that as something useful.
Tatars converted to Islam from Buddhism? I wasn't aware that the Tatars had ever been Buddhist. Do you mean the Tatarstan Tatars? Buddhism has a following across Russia, but mainly in Petersburg, Moscow, and around the Baikal region. A friend of mine who used to spend 6 months in Dharamsala, India, every year, working for the Dalai Lama's government, said big tour buses of mostly Russian Buddhists would arrive for the two weeks each year that the DL gives a series of public lectures.
I was talking about Tatar-Mongol Empire ( the Tatarstan Tatars are the descendants of that Empire from what I remember, as in "Golden Horde.") I was a bit off - they were mainly Shamanists, but part of them practiced Buddhism as well.
Nothing new. Russia thinks that it's THE god's authority. The whole existence of Russia is based on two battles; Alexander Nevski who defeated the Finnish/Swedish/Norwegian Catholic scum at the battle of the Neva which Alexander got his name and reputation.
Some years later Baltic Germans decided that these Eastern Slavs aren't fit for controlling themselves.
The Baltic Germans gathered a big army with the help of the Baltic people, and were defeated at the battle of the ice.
Today Orthodox Russia sees itself as the 4th Rome, higher than decadent Catholic or Protestant heretics.
Alexander Nevski lived and died, but maybe he just faced two bandits.
Ariete, if I were you, I'd ask myself a question, why so many Baltic Germans ended up in St. Petersburg Universities later on. Like seriously...
Ariete, if I were you, I'd ask myself a question, why so many Baltic Germans ended up in St. Petersburg Universities later on. Like seriously...
Because of people like Peter I and Catherine II ?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
