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Old 07-29-2015, 10:52 AM
 
26,786 posts, read 22,567,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I think American history can shed some light on the evolution of the events in the swamps and forest of NE Europe. 240 years ago, people of the same culture, language and origin as English had a sparsely populated, unexploited continent in front of them. And it was enough for the Americans to get an independence bug in them, freedom rhetoric, taxes, grievances etc. those are minor things compared.

And now think about those ancient slavic tribes expanding into and exploiting their new motherlands. Were they any different in their grabbing instincts than Americans? They had all those new forests and swamps to claim, uniting with mother tribe or any tribe was not on the menu. The agenda of unity as to improve exploitation of resources, division of labor and military power must follow "speciation" of the tribes from a mother tribe and explosion in diversity. Russian comrades just mindlessly project unification agenda of the Russian Empire onto ancient past.

Again, since in all probability the Poles are the "purest" descendants of the mother of all Slavic tribes, Russians positioning themselves as the natural uniters preserving all that purity etc. is a nonsensical claim on multiple levels.
That Poles can "unite" anything is a "nonsensical claim" I can tell you that much, ( although they tried it once.)
Kievan Rus was all about Orthodoxy - their princes worked on this matter quite laboriously, in order to avoid going under the church of Byzantium, but to have their own autocephalous church. That's what Kiev was all about, that's the reason why Ukraine asked for Moscow's help in the 1600ies, that's the reason why Ukraine got united with Russia and the rest.
Poland on another hand became a vassal of Rome and always remains someone else's vassal til today.
It tried briefly back in the day to grab Ukraine, but precisely because of the differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy it didn't work out.
The history of the US has got nothing to do with all of that, because these were already much later times.
The Russian nation has been born much earlier, in Kievan Rus, with its center of development constantly moving Eastward for a number of reasons. And it were Russian princes who were constantly expanding and claiming new territories surrounding them in what's now European part of Russia. Russian history can be compared to US history more or less only from the point of conquering Siberia ( about 17th century.)
So go read books, genius))))
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Your link is very strange. From your link:

"The disintegration, or parcelling of the polity of Kievan Rus' in the 11th century resulted in considerable population shifts and a political, social, and economic regrouping. The resultant effect of these forces coalescing was the marked emergence of new peoples.[29] While these processes began long before the fall of Kiev, its fall expedited these gradual developments into a significant linguistic and ethnic differentiation among the Rus' people into Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Russians."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Russian_nation

Divided by the Russian, Ukrainians and Belarusian were not in the 11th century. I am surprised that it is in Wikipedia. Even the term "Rus" was not used for the entire territory of the country at the time. In Novgorod people wrote "go to Rus" (go to Kiev) at the time.
It has been "edited" by some "Voevoda" four months ago, so you shouldn't be surprised any longer. The Ukrainians running like chickens with their heads cut off trying to re-write their history and pretend that they've never had anything to do with Russia))) Never ever. They were always pure "Europeans" you know, not Russian heathens)))
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:14 AM
 
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Comrade Erasure, people and tribes expanding into unoccupied lands diversify to become new people and tribes, all way until the space is filled, and only then agenda changes to dog eats dog, unification and nation building. You mindlessly project again. Proto Poles gave birth to many proto slavic tribes expanding into new area and splitting further. Kievan Rus was not a nation, it was a failed attempt to create collective at the wrong time when speciation pressure was too high.

people of Kievan Rus preserved pagan believes for centuries after nominal christening, Orthodoxy was helped greatly by Mongols realizing controlling value of the Orthodox Church. That is when Russian anti Western/anti Catholic sentiment was born. Princes and priests relying on pagan Mongols to rule needed to explain that to the masses as an attempt to prevent scheming Catholics from "enslaving" Rus. The myth is still alive.

Your case against unification with Mother Poland is weak. How some finno ugric mongrels, who adopted an artificial language and thoroughly synthetic culture can be more pure than Mother Poland?
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Paris
8,159 posts, read 8,736,615 times
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Please stick to the subject of the thread.
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Europe
1,646 posts, read 3,489,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
What is there to see in Belarus? Any old churches?
Some beautiful squares, library and streets I've heard, it is a kind of surprise, but I am going to Moguilev because part of the family are there.
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Minsk, Belarus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catbelle View Post
Some beautiful squares, library and streets I've heard, it is a kind of surprise, but I am going to Moguilev because part of the family are there.
What is a surprize?)
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel Vassil View Post
Not a dictatorship, but a government desired by the people based on the former model. Belarus is a democracy whose main goal is stability.
"Democracy" implies functional multi-party system, which Belorussia can't afford in her current economic situation. It has to remain a dictatorship, in order to protect itself from predatory Western practice.
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Minsk, Belarus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colonel Shepard View Post
Traveled to Belarus in June.
My answer is short
No there is dictatorship. People call their president "dad"))))

If interested, I can show pictures from this trip.
What were your impressions?
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:52 AM
 
5,781 posts, read 11,877,240 times
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If it is a dictatorsip, then it is a benevolent one. And personally I'd rather live in a benevolent dictatorship (other examples : Portugal and Spain in the sixties/early seventies, Hungary and its "Gulaschsozialsmus in the '80s, China now-not at the time ;of mass murderer Mao-etc) than in a malevolent "democracy" (like my country today, socialist France).
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Old 08-03-2015, 07:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
If it is a dictatorsip, then it is a benevolent one. And personally I'd rather live in a benevolent dictatorship (other examples : Portugal and Spain in the sixties/early seventies, Hungary and its "Gulaschsozialsmus in the '80s, China now-not at the time ;of mass murderer Mao-etc) than in a malevolent "democracy" (like my country today, socialist France).
If outside the law intimidation and executions, some number of corpses in the name of greater good dont bother you, there are some other things to consider. There is a difference between left and right wing dictatorships. The lefties tend to destroy social organism more thouroughly since they try to manage economy, and rightwingers just let it be. Complex system is simplified so a limited person like Lukashenko could personally manage it. Not a good idea. It is like rot simplifies complex biological tissues into smelly mash. Normally, lefty dictators cannot run the scheme for too long. If Russia would stop funding friendly Lukashenko regime, your dream of a stall, a whip and fodder would disappear overnight, or Belarus must "evolve" into something far less "benign", see North Korea.
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