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Kaczyński and Orbán are wannabee autocrats, but in those countries there are generally a pretty good opinion of EU among the populations.
I am also one of "those countries" in Eastern Europe, and I'm not a politician and no we don't have a good opinion on the EU. True, I don't like Farage either but that's a different topic...yet I'm sure I know better about the european union than an american dentist.
Those detesting the EU the most are currently ... and Italy.
Like most humans the world over, Italians like to complain ... about anything ... but when it comes to more than just talking with their mouths, I don't think they would leave the EU and, on the contrary, they would acquiesce to a full-fledged union if France and Germany were determined to achieve it.
Like most humans the world over, Italians like to complain ... about anything ... but when it comes to more than just talking with their mouths, I don't think they would leave the EU and, on the contrary, they would acquiesce to a full-fledged union if France and Germany were determined to achieve it.
The EU is facing yet another debt crisis, and there are big divisions in the EU from West to East and from North to South.
Eastern European countries have even threatened to leave and set up their own bloc, independent of Brussels, whilst the debt crisis is most prevalent in Southern Europe, whilst many Nordic countries such as Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland are not that Pro-EU to start with, and the Dutch are also becoming increasingly less supportive of the EU. Even the French President has stated he won't have a referendum in case he loses as Marine Le Pen and the right in France are quite a powerful political force.
In terms of Southern Europe, the economic landscape since 2007, as seen many nations impoverished such as Greece, Spain and Portugal, whilst along with Italy they have ever increasing debt, that has cause problems and splits in relation to EU wide bail financial outs,and the issuing of increasingly worthless bond schemes.
The Frugal Four of Austria, Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden being especially reluctant to offer economic bail outs to such countries.
Germany is also sometimes reluctant in this respect, and refused to bail Greece out of it's debt crisis, causing a good deal of division and even hatred, whilst Finland went on to support the Frugal Four's position.
Given this division within the EU, it's very likely that other countries may hold votes and that some may even follow the UK out of the EU.
Along with economic sclerosis, the south is awash in unsustainable debt. The OECD’s worst-case assessment for the end of 2021 finds Greece with an Olympian 229 per cent debt to GDP ratio, Italy at 192 per cent, Portugal and France 152 pe rcent, and Spain 150 per cent.
Perhaps worst of all — and incredibly — none of these countries have proactively put forward a convincing medium-term plan both to stimulate growth and then to manage this avalanche of debt.
The debt "crisis" is old news, we all know the details and by now we all know what to expect.
The question is, will France/Germany kick the Italians out because of it? Will the Italians quit the EU because of it?
Though they may express disdain more or less vehemently for one other from time to time, I doubt it.
In the information age, money grows on electrons.
The underlying issue is deeper than "debt"/money supply and that by itself is not enough to cause a break up.
The French/Germans have proven that they are willing to string the likes of Greece and Italy along, and the likes of Greece and Italy have proven weak enough that they have no better choice than to hold onto that string.
If, realistically, they were capable - mentally and logistically - of pursuing other options, they would, but they aren't and they don't, until proven otherwise in reality on the ground or some unexpected calamity changes the entire equation (not holding my breath).
UK, of course, is another story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
The EU is facing yet another debt crisis, and there are big divisions in the EU from West to East and from North to South.
Eastern European countries have even threatened to leave and set up their own bloc, independent of Brussels, whilst the debt crisis is most prevalent in Southern Europe, whilst many Nordic countries such as Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland are not that Pro-EU to start with, and the Dutch are also becoming increasingly less supportive of the EU. Even the French President has stated he won't have a referendum in case he loses as Marine Le Pen and the right in France are quite a powerful political force.
In terms of Southern Europe, the economic landscape since 2007, as seen many nations impoverished such as Greece, Spain and Portugal, whilst along with Italy they have ever increasing debt, that has cause problems and splits in relation to EU wide bail financial outs,and the issuing of increasingly worthless bond schemes.
The Frugal Four of Austria, Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden being especially reluctant to offer economic bail outs to such countries.
Germany is also sometimes reluctant in this respect, and refused to bail Greece out of it's debt crisis, causing a good deal of division and even hatred, whilst Finland went on to support the Frugal Four's position.
Given this division within the EU, it's very likely that other countries may hold votes and that some may even follow the UK out of the EU.
I am not anti-EU, but I am a bit of a skeptic of the superstate.
Basically, federalizing or otherwise centralizing power in the EU will be making a deal with the devil with a commensurate maleffect to go with the benefits that EU members already see.
Think of the root of many of the problems of the US. While the EU has the benefit of hindsight to avoid many of the problems faced there, some of the most critical problems are intrinsic to the superstate system.
I like European integration, but the US of Europe would be awful.
It would undermine Europe's diversity. I think it would be the last nail in the coffin of a continent that has been culturally, politically, economically under attack by Washington since the end of WWII.
Totally agree with you, although I was under impression that the economic attack came later on in history.
As in probably shortly after the fall of the Soviet Union.
The debt "crisis" is old news, we all know the details and by now we all know what to expect.
It's clearly not old news as pointed out by Dr John C. Hulsman in his recent article, the debt is mounting to greater heights than the previous fininacial crisis, and there are no credible plans to deal with it.
In terms of who leaves next that depends on which parties are voted in to power, with a number of political parties in Europe in several EU nations wanting a similar vote to the UK.
I am not anti-EU, but I am a bit of a skeptic of the superstate.
Basically, federalizing or otherwise centralizing power in the EU will be making a deal with the devil with a commensurate maleffect to go with the benefits that EU members already see.
Think of the root of many of the problems of the US. While the EU has the benefit of hindsight to avoid many of the problems faced there, some of the most critical problems are intrinsic to the superstate system.
I think the UK should have been leading the EU and angolizing it except for the food. I'm not keen on a unified EU army after world war 1 and 2. NATO is enough and it ensures peace. I think the whole continent should be in the EU except switzerland. Need to get germany to stop using Russian gas and Chinese contracts.
I want everyone speaking english or vulgar latin, something germanic, and maybe slavic. I don't have time to learn so many languages.
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