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I really love it when people leave replies like this, where they pretty much just dismiss all of my arguments while making exactly zero counter-arguments of their own in favor of just repeating the same old tried "just eat less and move more" meme. Your body is a machine with certain kinds of programing. Not everybody is programed the same, and people's programing can be altered by lifestyle in ways that doesn't always work in their favor.
I've been gaining weight recently. Why? Because I've been sitting on my arse eating things that I shouldn't be.
This is my fault. I take responsibility for myself. Actions have consequences.
I will solve this problem by exercising and controlling my diet.
And what are you going to do once your already down to 1500 calories a day? Eat only 1000? 500?
There is something extremely wrong with your workouts. If someone hammers the bike for 2 hours they can pretty much eat everything in sight and their weight won't go up. It's physically impossible. When I'm training and putting in serious time working out I lose weight even eating 4 giant meals a day. Your body is just another form of engine that burns fuel.
The only time I've ever gained is when I'm sick and don't change my caloric intake. Oh, that and I really like good beer.
I eat healthy. Roughly 2000 calories a day and about 2500 during the weekends. I work out 3 times a week and currently weight roughly 72-73kg. And like most, I agree that good diet and exercise can allow for amazing body transformations for most people.
However, when it comes to obese individuals I think this meme of "just eat less move more" is actually bull****.
I use to believe that as well before I started working out, but after I started educating myself about the human body and how it treats/responds to nutrition, I am now much more sceptical about the idea that obese people are merely obese because they can't change their lifestyle, and believe that many (I said MANY, not all) of their claims about how they can't lose weight might actually be valid. The reason I believe this is because of the fallowing facts (which most people don't know about or understand):
1. Metabolism.
How fast your body burns energy/fat changes depending on how much you eat. If start eating less than before you lose weight for a while, but then your body adapts and starts slowing down your metabolism making weight/fat loss harder. Your body does this to protect you from starvation (it's not like your body cares you are trying to get abs, it just wants you to live). This means the typical argument of "your body can't create energy out of nothing" isn't as valid as it sounds, because by eating less your body will start spending less energy to begin with.
2. Every time you get new fat you did not have before your body generates new fat cells.
When you get rid of fat you lose some fat but your fat cells will not go away. Ever. Your fat cells allow your body to remember your max bodyfat percentage you have ever obtained so that it can more easily obtain it again in the future should you increase your caloric intake. Again, this is a survival mechanic.
3. Your body adapts to the manner in which you live.
Calories in, and calories out. That's how it works, right? No it doesn't. Your body is a living machine that spends the energy you give it depending on what it believes it should be used for. If a person has been very active for most of it's life then your body will adapt to that fact and is more likely to invest calories into muscle building instead of converting them into fat. In a similar manner, if somebody has been obese and inactive since they were small your body will slowly start defaulting into just converting everything into fat because it sees no reason to do anything else. The more active or obese the person is the greater this effect will be.
The point being:
While none of what I said above makes it impossible for "normal fat people" (individuals who are merely fat rather than disgustingly obese) to get back down to normal weight, for individuals who have obtained extreme levels of bodyfat and maintained it for long periods of time, the damage they have caused to their body mechanics via accumulation of large amounts of fat cells, slow metabolism, and the obtaining of a body behaviour that defaults to storing fat rather than building muscle, it is very possible that they will never be able to get back down to normal bodyfat again.
That doesn't mean they can't lose weight. But there is a big difference between losing weight and actually going back to normal. If a 250kg person loses 70kg, that's a lot of lost weight, but the person would still be obese. Things like genetics no doubt play a role, as some obese people might be luckier than others. But generally speaking, I think that for many people obesity might not be something they will ever be able to properly get rid off.
A special note:
Note this doesn't mean obese people aren't to blame for their condition. It's still their fault they got obese in the first place. Also note that nothing of what I said should be considered as an excuse to not try and lose weight. There is also a difference between merely being pretty fat and having high levels of obesity.
The reason I felt the need to create this thread is that I don't like the elitism coming from the fitness community which heavily promotes the idea that obese people are only lazy. I mean don't get me wrong, MOST of them ARE lazy. But there is more to it then that.
Hope this information was helpful and informative
EDIT: Honestly I think this thread should be stickied.
I think the proper response to this would be an edited version of the famous Patton speech.
OP, you don't know any more about metabolism than you know about forn******!
Maybe the proper person to deliver the speech is Arnold!
Bottom line - if you ate nothing at all, would you start losing weight? Answer - Yes, there is no other place for your body to get energy from, so burn the fat it does not "want" to it would.
If you ate a low calorie plant based diet and started to at least walk say 30 minutes a day - same thing, the weight would come off.
If you would put your effort into losing the weight, rather than inventing imaginative excuses, you would be at a normal weight by now.
Bottom line - if you ate nothing at all, would you start losing weight? Answer - Yes, there is no other place for your body to get energy from, so burn the fat it does not "want" to it would.
So here's what I'm curious about. I don't think this has ever been tested, due to the obvious reasons.
But, would it be possible for an overweight person to die of starvation before he goes down to a skeletal, dangerously low weight?
So say a overweight person could just stop eating. Full stop.
If their body works the way it's expected to, what should technically happen is that they should start burning fat to fuel their bodily functions and keep them alive; and that should continue until there is no more tissues to burn.
Now, would that actually be what happens?
Or would the person, especially one whose metabolism doesn't quite function as it should, die of malnutrition long before they get to that stage?
It would also be interesting to see what happens to people of different metabolisms. For example someone with a more healthy one may be able to stay alive longer because their body is more efficient at burning fat to fuel them.
Hmm...
I think, we have enough fat bashing threads in here.
That post wasn't but we'll see the garden variety in here. I didn't read beyond the next post but we all know the typical exercise/fitness anti-fatty posters reared their heads...
I work in healthcare, and even though I don't directly work with patients I end up going to classes, training, and other employer sponsored events. Here is what we are told: Something like 70% of health problems are self inflicted over time. People eat too much, move to little, Fail to get enough sleep, fail to drink plenty of water, smoke, take drugs, drink excessively, or take part in some other addictive behavior. It has been said that we are killing ourselves one bite at a time. I don't want to take anyone's enjoyment with life away from them. Feel free to live how you want to live. This is all about personal choices.
I am not going to attempt to understand every persons personal history or body makeup. Still, living a good life, meaning eating less, moving more, drinking lots of water, and getting plenty of sleep, more than likely will ensure a healthy life. When I am talking eating I am meaning food of the non processed variety. Drop the fructose, fat, fortified, fried, fast foods and choose fresh fruits and vegetables as the base for your diet.
realize that people were thinner back in the early 80's and before for this one reason: Portion size. Do you realize that McDonalds fires came in one size back in 1955 and that size was smaller than a child size today. The burgers were smaller back then as well and the drink size was an 8 ounce fountain drink.
When I was in high school a large drink at the 7-11 was a 20 ounce drink. I remember when they started offering the Big Gulp and although it did well not everyone bought that gigantic 32 ounce drink. A 20 ounce drink seemed about right for everyone. A medium was 16 ounces I think. I can't even imagine anyone walking out of a 7-11 with anything less than a 32 ounce and I am betting that the 44 ounce is even more popular. Even at McDonalds I had a hard time getting a 16 ounce drink for my 11 year old son because they kept telling me, the large is the same price, just take that one.
We have become conditioned to eat more, drink more, and do less and then we wonder why so many people are large. We wonder why it has become the norm to have 50 lbs of extra heft to our bodies. This is not normal for 95% of the people. The other 5% may have a medical condition but I am betting that a trip to the Doctor would be in order if someone finds out that they can not drop any weight. I think it is possible. If it is possible to go from being diabetic to not being diabetic then it is possible to drop the weight and get on with a healthy life. My mom after years of letting things go found out she was diabetic 11 years ago. Her doctor wanted to give her medication to work with the diabetes. She wanted to fight it. Her Doctor did not believe she would change. My mom made changes in her life that were dramatic. She lost a lot of weight and now in her late 70's looks in better shape that she did 20 years earlier. My parents are both active and have made the changes needed to have a great quality of life in their later years.
After the breakup of a relationship a few years ago, I dealt with things by overeating and drinking (and sleeping alot). I was drinking 12-14 beers a night and my diet was horrible. My refrigerator had pizza boxes stacked up and I was storing extra items from Taco Bell, McDonalds and Wendy's in my refrigerator. Like a pile of double stacks next to Mc Chickens and a ten pack of tacos.
Then I went in for a physical. 258lbs and my triglycerides were at 465 (basically 500 = diabetes).
I immediately stopped drinking, changed my diet and ran two miles a night after work, six days a week.
End result: Eight months later I was down to 196lbs and my triglycerides were at 128. (normal is below 150).
I work in healthcare, and even though I don't directly work with patients I end up going to classes, training, and other employer sponsored events. Here is what we are told: Something like 70% of health problems are self inflicted over time. People eat too much, move to little, Fail to get enough sleep, fail to drink plenty of water, smoke, take drugs, drink excessively, or take part in some other addictive behavior. It has been said that we are killing ourselves one bite at a time. I don't want to take anyone's enjoyment with life away from them. Feel free to live how you want to live. This is all about personal choices.
I can see that but there are issues.
We have FAR LESS TIME these days. How many jobs do we see where people are at their desks and the longest walk is to the bathroom or lunch rooms? Not everyone has a job that doubles as exercise if even walking. Then we see a good number of people not live close to public transit so they drive back and forth to work. So when we get home we eat easy meals (throw in the microwave or go through the drive-thru) and don't have time to work out or even get less sleep than we should because of the "grind." This is especially true if you are a single parent.
Drinking enough water is an issue in a good number of places (not so much AZ due to the heat) due to the fact that we have far too many other choices that allow us to say I want an energy drink, I want a Gatorade, I want a soda, etc. over the non-sexy water option. I don't mind water actually but I personally like Smart Waters more and they have the electrolytes that Gatorades and Vitamin Waters have while being water otherwise. And that came after years of drinking sodas, Gatorades and even energy drinks. I have dropped a good amount of non-water from my diet (except meals.)
The main thing I will agree with that is just stupid for humans to do is addictive behavior. I wouldn't include food in this but alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, heroin, meth, etc. are. Sadly most people realize they are vices far too late in the cycle.
Quote:
I am not going to attempt to understand every persons personal history or body makeup. Still, living a good life, meaning eating less, moving more, drinking lots of water, and getting plenty of sleep, more than likely will ensure a healthy life. When I am talking eating I am meaning food of the non processed variety. Drop the fructose, fat, fortified, fried, fast foods and choose fresh fruits and vegetables as the base for your diet.
It's easy to say that but it isn't easy to do. It takes a LOT of retraining. After so many years, your brain gets wired into thinking you can only eat this way. I had to cut out carbs last year after I had my gallbladder removed. Luckily if I eat too many carbs, my stomach feels it. I become gassy and bloated from it. Other people don't and wont realize it until it is too late to fix.
Quote:
realize that people were thinner back in the early 80's and before for this one reason: Portion size. Do you realize that McDonalds fires came in one size back in 1955 and that size was smaller than a child size today. The burgers were smaller back then as well and the drink size was an 8 ounce fountain drink.
Of course but back then you didn't have people doing Taco Bell on night, McDonalds the next night, KFC the night after that and then feel bad and hit Subway on the fourth day only to do a Red Robin the night after.
Quote:
When I was in high school a large drink at the 7-11 was a 20 ounce drink. I remember when they started offering the Big Gulp and although it did well not everyone bought that gigantic 32 ounce drink. A 20 ounce drink seemed about right for everyone. A medium was 16 ounces I think. I can't even imagine anyone walking out of a 7-11 with anything less than a 32 ounce and I am betting that the 44 ounce is even more popular. Even at McDonalds I had a hard time getting a 16 ounce drink for my 11 year old son because they kept telling me, the large is the same price, just take that one.
When I was younger, my parents would only let me get a Big or Double gulp if we were traveling far. If not until my teen years, it was just the gulp. Now I go for value which is that McDonald's large. Then again, those Monopoly games don't hurt it...
Quote:
We have become conditioned to eat more, drink more, and do less and then we wonder why so many people are large. We wonder why it has become the norm to have 50 lbs of extra heft to our bodies. This is not normal for 95% of the people. The other 5% may have a medical condition but I am betting that a trip to the Doctor would be in order if someone finds out that they can not drop any weight. I think it is possible. If it is possible to go from being diabetic to not being diabetic then it is possible to drop the weight and get on with a healthy life. My mom after years of letting things go found out she was diabetic 11 years ago. Her doctor wanted to give her medication to work with the diabetes. She wanted to fight it. Her Doctor did not believe she would change. My mom made changes in her life that were dramatic. She lost a lot of weight and now in her late 70's looks in better shape that she did 20 years earlier. My parents are both active and have made the changes needed to have a great quality of life in their later years.
To the bold, it is rare that you can truly reverse diabetes. You may not need anything other than pills but that's it. Most people can't do it and it's not a diet and exercise equation thing, it's just their levels for blood sugars, A1C and all that. I am entirely glad your mother did but that is entirely the exception to the rule. So I wouldn't suggest that you claim it is. It is possible but not probable.
After the breakup of a relationship a few years ago, I dealt with things by overeating and drinking (and sleeping alot). I was drinking 12-14 beers a night and my diet was horrible. My refrigerator had pizza boxes stacked up and I was storing extra items from Taco Bell, McDonalds and Wendy's in my refrigerator. Like a pile of double stacks next to Mc Chickens and a ten pack of tacos.
Then I went in for a physical. 258lbs and my triglycerides were at 465 (basically 500 = diabetes).
I immediately stopped drinking, changed my diet and ran two miles a night after work, six days a week.
End result: Eight months later I was down to 196lbs and my triglycerides were at 128. (normal is below 150).
Strength & Power of Will
I am similar but I went from 290 down to my lowest of 240. I'm at 250 now but honestly I DO feel mostly healthy. Sure I wish I could lose more weight if not fat but it's not like I am not pretty athletic (I think part of it is the genetics I have as my father is rather stocky and thick.) The issue is we both were NOT diabetic, we were both "at-risk." At risk means you can still reverse the curse. My parents were never "at-risk" by the time they were diagnosed. They were diabetic. You can only really reverse it before you truly are. There's a possibility of it but it isn't as likely as many people say it on here...
Uh huh. Sure. In your previous post, you said weight loss is achieved by simply cutting calories. Weight loss for life is achieved by caloric restriction, proper diet, exercise, behavior modification, and also emotional support. Simply cutting doesn't do jack when you're older. Sorry, but if a dietitian suggested that I go no lower than 1300, I'd take her advice before the interwabs. You can cut but so much before you morph into some food obsessed creature. I prefer the balanced approach.
Btw note if you read my post, you'd see that I said that I lost the weight, so I'm not excusing anything. I lost it and have kept it off. That doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge that there are some very real hurdles for people.
Exercise helps speed up weight loss and increases metabolism but is not necessary.
Emotional support is not needed if you're strong-willed and/or not weak-minded.
Behavior modification has no physiological effect on weight loss.
The only thing that does have a physiological effect on weight loss is: cutting calories.
So, you're wrong, "simply cutting" is exactly how you lose weight at any age.
Really, most fat people I meet are weak people. They'd rather circumvent the actual problem and say "anything but eating less! give me a pill! give me some atkins/south beach/low carb/low fat/bullcrap diet!"
Then, when things fail, they're quick to blame their friends or significant other for not doing enough. Or, they'll find another "thing" to blame.
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