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You have to ignore NOVAguy. He has convinced himself that Northern Virginia is exactly what he just said, and that it is some far different place than Central and Tidewater Virginia's, despite fellow Virginians providing evidence to the contrary (threads of similarity that unite the regions)...
I wholly agree with your New South on steroids description. Both NoVa and The District proper (and Maryland for that matter) have more than enough contrasts with their northern counterparts (NE suburbs/major NE cities) to still be identified as parts of the South. Of course, this conversation has been had many, many times on here...
I dont have a problem with people associating NoVa or anywhere else in VA with its closest Northeast neighbors, but I do have a problem with attempts at full dissociation from the South, or statements that separate parts of Virginia from the rest of the state. Northern Virginia is very Virginian, it just borders a major city. Only people with a passing familiarity-to-no familiarity at all of the rest of Virginia, think NoVa belongs to some separate distinction...
Very true. After all, it's easy enough to see several similarities between DC itself and certain VA cities, most notably Richmond, so saying NoVA is an entity completely alien to the rest of the state is pretty off-base IMO.
True. I was thinking more of areas like Montclair, NJ but good point. My only point is politically, economically, culturally NoVa has more in common with the NE than the south.
The NE is no more uniform than the South is. Parts of the NE are in the Rust Belt (including parts of NJ) and NoVA and the Rust Belt couldn't be further apart. To limit the NE to affluent, liberal suburban areas is quite shortsighted. What are NoVA's counterparts to Camden, East Orange, Newark, Bridgeport, etc? What about Allentown or the Bronx? And while (inner) NoVA is more developed and denser than many other suburban areas of major Southern metros, it shares several key characteristics with the Research Triangle, Atlanta's northern suburbs, etc.; it's nowhere close to being completely removed from these areas as you think.
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People here would probably laugh at you if you told them they’re in the south. There isn’t much “southern pride” here which is different from the rest of state imo.
There are plenty of landmarks and such throughout NoVA that let you know you are IN the South. I don't get laughs from DC/MD natives when I mention that they are technically in the South, which they acknowledge while also being aware of the cultural differences that exist between much of the DMV and most of the rest of the South. And you won't find much Southern pride in transplant-laden parts of other Southern states compared to areas that haven't experienced a similar influx of outsiders; that certainly isn't unique to NoVA.
Except for the fact that NOVA isn’t a state.....
Also, while NOVA isn’t characteristically Southern, it doesn’t really feel “Northern” either. It’s such a new region (in terms of development) that it almost feels like the Sunbelt region in some respects (Arlington/Alexandria being the exception- although they actually share some similarities to Charleston).
-I grew up in the DC area (MD side).
Completely agree. Your valid point about all the new development is a major reason why I said NoVA feels like the New South on steroids. Just about all of the suburban areas of major Northern metros contain sizable urban anchors with a palpable post-industrial, blue-collar vibe. NoVA feels more like Cherry Hill but nothing like Camden or Chester.
To the transplants who call Southern states "Mid-Atlantic" or "non-Southern" because they are ashamed to be associated with the South and want to downplay that reality as much as possible, why even bother moving here? Why move to a place just to elevate everything about where you came from and denigrate your new home because it doesn't perfectly cater to your previous way of life that you chose to leave? And if you didn't "choose to" and instead moved purely for employment reasons, perhaps you need to revaluate your job search or just be grateful for the new opportunities provided to you and make at least a nominal effort to appreciate the South.
Just a question, in your opinion, does the bolded also hold true of Maryland?
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Nobody in real life suggests NC isn't the South. My parents (who are from Memphis and Little Rock) have jokingly called NC unsouthern, but my mother also spent half of her upbringing in Western/Upstate New York (as well as lived in St. Louis and Connecticut before she had kids), so any mention of NC not being the South is made in jest. So I guess I should say the only mentions of NC not being the South in real life are made both jokingly and sparingly...
There is plenty of real life debate as to how southern Virginia is, and isnt relegated to only NoVa. Longtime posters know I grew up in NoVa and Central VA, and I have an oft-told story of being 13 years old in Memphis and being told i wasnt southern, an assertion that has reverberated many times in my adulthood. Additionally, just last November, I ran an office survey, small sample size notwithstanding, in which 40% of the people i work with (mixture of natives and transplants) believe that urban Tidewater VA isn't the South...
The city of Richmond has more in common with DC than it does with Raleigh and even Norfolk, and has much stronger cultural associations with states to its north (namely MD but also PA, NY, and Mass to varying degree) than to any state to its south--yes, that means North Carolina...
This topic has been brought up, beat to the dirt, buried and resurrected a million times on here. For some, it is hard to fathom that the fabled "Capital of the Confederacy" has moved on from that period (like, 154 years ago). For others more familiar with the city, even if they don't view Rich as "northern", they understand why it is a question to some. People question Richmond in real life and for different reasons than the ones who question Raleigh or Charlotte, which incidentally only happens in citydata World...
For the record, for those not familiar with my posting history: I consider Virginia the South. All of Virginia, as a young man who grew up in Northern Virginia....but, Urban Virginia (NoVa x Central VA x Hampton Roads), where 75% of the state lives, is markedly different from outer Virginia (everywhere outside The Crescent), and is noticeably different from most of the rest of the greater South. I've lived in all three of VA's Big 3 metros. There is cultural overlap in all three (especially Nova/RVA and RVA/HR, but some overlap from Nova/HR as well), that is not present in outer VA. Anybody who thinks NoVa is on this island by itself is misinformed or uneducated on VA, or in the case of one of my fellow Virginians, just need to get out and explore The Commonwealth more. All of Virginia is in the South but this is a different type of South than found anywhere outside VA's Urban Crescent, a Mid-Atlantic South...
[quote=murksiderock;52566381]Just a question, in your opinion, does the bolded also hold true of Maryland?
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Yes, I would say parts of Maryland have extensive Southern influences, particularly east of Chesapeake Bay. But the state as a whole fits in better with the Northeast, even as it is part of the transition zone between the two regions. Delaware would be much the same.
Many years ago, I recall my mother and her sister (both born and raised in Richmond) talking about whether or not Virginia was in the South since both often heard of Virginia referred to as a Southern state. Neither felt that they lived in the "South" and had always considered Virginia to be a "mid-Atlantic state". I think they were unaware that each spoke with the beautiful southern accent found in central Virginia.
Ppl erroneously don't consider VA the south since Northern VA is part of the BosWash. Ppl very erroneously don't consider NC the south, since it's one state removed from VA (which ppl assume to not be part of the south) and has transplants in all of the state's major metros.
Many years ago, I recall my mother and her sister (both born and raised in Richmond) talking about whether or not Virginia was in the South since both often heard of Virginia referred to as a Southern state. Neither felt that they lived in the "South" and had always considered Virginia to be a "mid-Atlantic state". I think they were unaware that each spoke with the beautiful southern accent found in central Virginia.
They were both native Richmonders???? That's wild.
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