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Politically Virginia is as conservative as Louisiana outside of NOVA. In fact, areas like Lynchburg are more Bible Belt culturally than some of South Louisiana where drinking and casino gambling is more acceptable than there.
Obviously that's not true. LOL, you're not going to get to Charlotte from Richmond in 4 or under unless you're going 90+ and want to get pulled over several times. And Florence, SC is even further away.
And if going by your definitions, where you’re excluding Maryland, Delaware, and DC from the north, you’ll still reach Lancaster, Harrisburg, York, Gettysburg in just about 3 hours or under and Reading, PA and Camden NJ in under 4 and even Trenton and Princeton NJ before you’d reach Charlotte from Richmond. There is much more between Richmond and points north than the city and points south. I'm not even sure what driving distance proves anyway. Historically, Richmond's southern business class was always more concerned with what was happening up north and as that poster mentioned, from a historical standpoint, the real city you wanted to get to south from Richmond was Charleston, which you had to travel to by boat.
I Google mapped every location that I gave a time for. Florence said 3:55, Charlotte said 4:28, Philly and Wilmington said 3:55. The point is that you can get to far more southern cities in less time than you get to northeastern cities. Richmond is centrally located in the upper south, with two major southern cities north of it.
I think people have to remember that being like Philly does not mean it lacks Southern characteristics. Philly was deeply impacted by migration from the South a generation or two before VA and MD were altered by in migration to DC. Some of what we see of Philadelphia as ingrained characteristics originate from the South.
In addition Philly gets like 12 inches of snow a year it’s one of those cities that gets shut down by any significant snowfall, and Hockey isn’t native to the region. PA only got it’s first college hockey team in like 2015 for example, way out in State College.
First of all, those places are not even really "like" Philly and don't have Philadelphia characteristics. They just might share the rowhome trait, but overall it is a superficial thing overall. Philadelphia's ingrained characteristic is freedom and progressiveness originating by it's quaker roots. Also, there is a difference between being influenced vs having a characteristic. The only southern influence that Philly received was from the Great migration which is no different from Philly's fellow Northern peers. Going by your logic, NYC has southern "characteristics", as well as NJ and Connecticut's cities or any other city in the north that received significant black migrants from the South. However, I do see a connection with Boston and the south. Plenty of racist experiences from black people has depicted Boston as having similarities with Alabama's racism and other parts of the deep south. Also, the defacto or most popular sport in terms of participation of the Northern US is Basketball, not Hockey so I don't know where you're going with your Hockey take. Basketball is THE city game in the north because it's 4 seasons sport that can still be played indoors during the cold winter without the significantly more expensive costs and maintenance of a Hockey ring. BTW Philly gets significantly more than 12 inches a year. Over the past 30 years, Philly averages 23.1 inches of snow with the most recent 10 year average being 29 inches of snow https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...n-averages.php
It takes well over a foot of snow to cause significant problems in Philly.
The answer is Louisville. Although very close to the Midwest, Louisville feels very Southern and the locals will remind you of their Southernness when questioned.
Cincinnati has elements of the South, but is actually more Appalachian influenced form many generations of Kentucky transplants. Plus Cincy has strong German ancestry as well as a strong industrial past, but if you look, you can find some Southern undertones in Cincinnati.
My guess is it’s Louisville like everyone is saying. But what do folks think about places like Wilmington, Delaware? Also thoughts on Southern Missouri and Southern West Virginia?
My guess is it’s Louisville like everyone is saying. But what do folks think about places like Wilmington, Delaware? Also thoughts on Southern Missouri and Southern West Virginia?
My family moved from Petersburg, Virginia to Dover, Delaware in the 1950s and as a kid in elementary school at the time I found myself experiencing significant "culture shock". In Petersburg, we lived near the civil war entrenchments and forts which were erected during the siege of the city in 1864. Thus while the Civil War and Virginia's role in that conflict were part of my education in Petersburg, in Dover it was discussed only in history class. None of my classmates in Dover cared about "The War" but they got a big kick out of mocking my southern accent, lol.
Dover is located in central Delaware (Kent County) and there was nothing about Dover that felt "Southern" to me. The locals spoke with a funny "Northern" accent and the town was dominated by Philadelphia media---newspapers, television, radio, etc. Wilmington is basically a satellite city of Philadelphia and is about as "Southern" as Philly is, which (IMO) is to say not "Southern" at all. In fact the three counties of Delaware were originally part of Pennsylvania, and were given the right by William Penn to secede and form their own colony (state) which finally happened in 1776.
None of this is meant to knock Dover, Wilmington or Delaware. Looking back on my childhood in Dover, I now see the town as about as perfect as a small city could be and my education in Delaware public schools couldn't have been better.
Last edited by VTinPhilly; 01-11-2022 at 02:53 PM..
First of all, those places are not even really "like" Philly and don't have Philadelphia characteristics. They just might share the rowhome trait, but overall it is a superficial thing overall. Philadelphia's ingrained characteristic is freedom and progressiveness originating by it's quaker roots. Also, there is a difference between being influenced vs having a characteristic. The only southern influence that Philly received was from the Great migration which is no different from Philly's fellow Northern peers. Going by your logic, NYC has southern "characteristics", as well as NJ and Connecticut's cities or any other city in the north that received significant black migrants from the South. However, I do see a connection with Boston and the south. Plenty of racist experiences from black people has depicted Boston as having similarities with Alabama's racism and other parts of the deep south. Also, the defacto or most popular sport in terms of participation of the Northern US is Basketball, not Hockey so I don't know where you're going with your Hockey take. Basketball is THE city game in the north because it's 4 seasons sport that can still be played indoors during the cold winter without the significantly more expensive costs and maintenance of a Hockey ring. BTW Philly gets significantly more than 12 inches a year. Over the past 30 years, Philly averages 23.1 inches of snow with the most recent 10 year average being 29 inches of snow https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...n-averages.php
It takes well over a foot of snow to cause significant problems in Philly.
43% of Philly population is Back almost the entirety of that came from the south east Atlantic states from 1890-1960. So even if it’s just the great migration, you’re talking like 1/2 the city. Boston is about 12% African American by contrast (24% black but about 1/2 Immigrants). Not to mention Philly’s Hispanic population is largely Mexican while that is not true further North.
Yes NYC has southern characteristics. After all Classic Broadway was very Jazzy, brought to the north from the South.
Hockey is the predominate Soectator sport in the far north. The MIAA hockey tournament gets ~2x the attendance of Basketball, every single major University other than UConn and URI in New England have Hockey teams than far outstrip their Basketball counterparts, and the Bruins outrage the Celtics. In MN the hockey championship sells out the Wild Arena
To pretend racism is “southern” is kind of crazy, considering Detroit and LA have both had multiple race riots that have killed dozens. And are not Southern.. in fact I believe the Philly PD bombed a black neighborhood killing 11 Black people
Philly does not have a history of progressiveness and freedom among its population. It was just a center point for delegates to the Continental Congress.
Politically PA acts much more like GA than MA. Fulton votes like Philly, but S GA, C PA and W MA, only W.MA isn’t like 85% Republican
I don’t understand how you can possibly say Philly and Baltimore are totally different in a national scale. I fundamentally don’t get how saying Philly is more like Richmond than Boston is like Richmond is remotely refutable
Last edited by btownboss4; 01-11-2022 at 03:27 PM..
This has definitely turned into an interesting discussion. It seems like some people are trying to push the South into Philadelphia which is definitely a stretch. Philadelphia is a solidly Northern city. As I said in my previous post the only southern cities near Richmond are in North Carolina unless you include Maryland and Delaware as Southern states. If you want to continue to group Maryland, Virginia, and Delaware into the historical upper south definition than I don't completely disagree. I just think that that definition is not as accurate today because the region is really more in the middle of the east coast hence southern Mid Atlantic would be a better name. Not to mention people in Richmond have easier access to major Northeastern cities like New York and Philadelphia than a major southern city like Atlanta. I think the difference between Delaware, Maryland and Virginia is that people in Virginia do tend to have more southern pride. That explains why someone from Virginia who moves to Delaware may feel a cultural difference. However most people living in both states have very similar cultural backgrounds. This is pretty evident when you compare demographics between cities. Driving from Norfolk to Wilmington through the Eastern Shore the entire area feel very similar. Coastal plains with small town and large port cities with significant African American populations. I also agree that Philly, Baltimore, and Wilmington Share a lot of characteristics with Philly however the differences is what makes Philly a true Northern city and Baltimore and Wilmington more questionable.
Dover is located in central Delaware (Kent County) and there was nothing about Dover that felt "Southern" to me. The locals spoke with a funny "Northern" accent and the town was dominated by Philadelphia media---newspapers, television, radio, etc.
I've never really noticed a difference in accents between people from Delaware and Virginia. However I will says that people from different parts of Virginia do have stronger accents. The southern accent is more prominent the further west you travel in Virginia so its possible you noticed a difference. I just haven't noticed a difference compared to my own Virginia accent. The accent differences are more noticeable to me with people from Philly and further North.
I've never really noticed a difference in accents between people from Delaware and Virginia. However I will says that people from different parts of Virginia do have stronger accents. The southern accent is more prominent the further west you travel in Virginia so its possible you noticed a difference. I just haven't noticed a difference compared to my own Virginia accent. The accent differences are more noticeable to me with people from Philly and further North.
I'm sorry, I just can't believe you.
The southern accent in Richmond is extremely pronounced to northerners.
I've always disliked heading north because of that. I'm immediately identified as 'not from here' by the locals there.
When I travel south, even as far as Alabama, no one can tell I'm not a local. We just blend in better with our fellow southern states.
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