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Technically Maryland is southern. Delaware is not. However I am glad to say that if you go to maryland in search of southern culture you will be disappointed.
The point is that the flags don't MEAN that a state is southern.
Don't waste your time, CS. The person you are responding to is a borderline-troll. You can sum up his thesis in this sentence:
If you don't think Maryland is a true Southern state, then your only reason for thinking such is because you hate Maryland and Marylanders.
Believe me, he pops back in occasionally, and repeats that same old line. This particular poster is impervious to reason, rational discussion, or just about anything else. Hell, I got to where I just ignore his rants and lunatic style of writing. As do many others. Just gave up on even taking him seriously. In a nutshell, I think he is a little off his rocker..and probably even cultivates that image!
So, since you are obviously an intelligent and versed person, I will just direct my reply to you.
Personally, I don't think of Maryland as a Southern state. And definitely not Delaware. Now, I agree that on some historical/cultural level, Maryland has some Southern qualities. But, in the whole scheme of things, it isn't (a Southern state). This is just my opinion, of course. That is the operative qualification. My opinion. It isn't the alpha and omega any more than anyone elses is. As I said in another post (back when I made the mistake of trying to talk rationally with the person), this is NOT a slam at Maryland nor Marylanders. It is not an insult. I just -- for many reasons -- do not think of Maryland as part of the South.
BUT? As it is? Geez, there are some "Deep South purists" out there who do not think of my native state of Texas as part of the South as they define it. Some (and I am talking some distant kinfolk of mine who live in Mississippi and Alabama...as my ancestral roots are there) also exclude Arkansas and North Carolina...even Louisiana! LOL And more.
I think they are wrong, and try and back up my case with relevant information when this argument comes up. But that is as may be. Point being though, regardless of how abbreviated I think they are in their definition, I don't take it at all stemming from a hate of Texas and Texans. No, it is just their outlook. Same as my own definition does not happen to include Maryland.
Well, as I am prone to do, I have rambled on enough. I just want to finish by saying, in a nut-shell, my definition of the South wraps around many subjective historical and cultural considerations. It includes all the 11 Confederate states plus Kentucky, Oklahoma, and West Virginia. To be blunt, it doesn't include Missouri, Maryland, and Delaware. But that is just me. Nothing negative is involved.
Further, and maybe this is the most important aspect of all, there are extensive sociological-regional studies out there that show clearly that the vast majority of those living in the latter three states, do not consider themselves to live in the South nor consider themselves Southerners. How much more direct can it get? Here is the study in question, spanning 7 years and 17,000 respondents:
***********************
Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,552,637 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb
Don't waste your time, CS. The person you are responding to is a borderline-troll. You can sum up his thesis in this sentence:
If you don't think Maryland is a true Southern state, then your only reason for thinking such is because you hate Maryland and Marylanders.
Believe me, he pops back in occasionally, and repeats that same old line. This particular poster is impervious to reason, rational discussion, or just about anything else. Hell, I got to where I just ignore his rants and lunatic style of writing. As do many others. Just gave up on even taking him seriously. In a nutshell, I think he is a little off his rocker..and probably even cultivates that image!
So, since you are obviously an intelligent and versed person, I will just direct my reply to you.
Personally, I don't think of Maryland as a Southern state. And definitely not Delaware. Now, I agree that on some historical/cultural level, Maryland has some Southern qualities. But, in the whole scheme of things, it isn't (a Southern state). This is just my opinion, of course. That is the operative qualification. My opinion. It isn't the alpha and omega any more than anyone elses is. As I said in another post (back when I made the mistake of trying to talk rationally with the person), this is NOT a slam at Maryland nor Marylanders. It is not an insult. I just -- for many reasons -- do not think of Maryland as part of the South.
BUT? As it is? Geez, there are some "Deep South purists" out there who do not think of my native state of Texas as part of the South as they define it. Some (and I am talking some distant kinfolk of mine who live in Mississippi and Alabama...as my ancestral roots are there) also exclude Arkansas and North Carolina...even Louisiana! LOL And more.
I think they are wrong, and try and back up my case with relevant information when this argument comes up. But that is as may be. Point being though, regardless of how abbreviated I think they are in their definition, I don't take it at all stemming from a hate of Texas and Texans. No, it is just their outlook. Same as my own definition does not happen to include Maryland.
Well, as I am prone to do, I have rambled on enough. I just want to finish by saying, in a nut-shell, my definition of the South wraps around many subjective historical and cultural considerations. It includes all the 11 Confederate states plus Kentucky, Oklahoma, and West Virginia. To be blunt, it doesn't include Missouri, Maryland, and Delaware. But that is just me. Nothing negative is involved.
Further, and maybe this is the most important aspect of all, there are extensive sociological-regional studies out there that show clearly that the vast majority of those living in the latter three states, do not consider themselves to live in the South nor consider themselves Southerners. How much more direct can it get? Here is the study in question, spanning 7 years and 17,000 respondents:
***********************
Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)
West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16)
************************
Thank you.
I don't include Maryland, Delaware or (most of) Missouri for many reasons myself. And similarly, none of them are from prejudice.
I also consider the northern half of West Virginia to be in the north. As it's plant life is northern, it's weather is northern, and it's southern accent is diluted and scarce. The people begin to sound as Pennsylvanians or Ohioans.
Geographically and culturally the Mason-Dixon is tired and inaccurate. It's so far up north for one thing, and for another it was originally put in place to settle land squabbles between PA, VA and Maryland. It was later a north/south border, and when that was put in place, the nation was far smaller (if I'm not mistaken, Florida was still Spanish and Mississippi/Alabama were unorganized at the time).
To me a far more accurate line would be what I call the Delaware line. Draw a line from the south-west boundary of DE and extend it westward to the Ohio river. It works much better than the old M-D.
And to me, Texas, Oklahoma and CERTAINLY Arkansas/N Carolina are southern.
I refer to Texas and Oklahoma as the "Frontier south". And Arkansas/N Carolina are well within their cultural and geographical rights to be southern. :P
I don't include Maryland, Delaware or (most of) Missouri for many reasons myself. And similarly, none of them are from prejudice.
I also consider the northern half of West Virginia to be in the north. As it's plant life is northern, it's weather is northern, and it's southern accent is diluted and scarce. The people begin to sound as Pennsylvanians or Ohioans.
Geographically and culturally the Mason-Dixon is tired and inaccurate. It's so far up north for one thing, and for another it was originally put in place to settle land squabbles between PA, VA and Maryland. It was later a north/south border, and when that was put in place, the nation was far smaller (if I'm not mistaken, Florida was still Spanish and Mississippi/Alabama were unorganized at the time).
To me a far more accurate line would be what I call the Delaware line. Draw a line from the south-west boundary of DE and extend it westward to the Ohio river. It works much better than the old M-D.
And to me, Texas, Oklahoma and CERTAINLY Arkansas/N Carolina are southern.
I refer to Texas and Oklahoma as the "Frontier south". And Arkansas/N Carolina are well within their cultural and geographical rights to be southern. :P
That's my opinion.
I like that term "Frontier South". Good job!
I alway used "Western South", myself. So far as I know, the designation originated with Raymond Gastil in his great book, "Cultural Regions of the United States." It deliniated a major sub-region of the larger South -- which encompassed most of Texas and a large part of Oklahoma -- to refer to a unique part of the South where, essentially, Southern history and culture were heavily flavored with post-bellum frontier western qualities. There are many ways to sum it up, I suppose, but that is the gist of it. "Frontier South" works just as well.
I don't include Maryland, Delaware or (most of) Missouri for many reasons myself. And similarly, none of them are from prejudice.
I also consider the northern half of West Virginia to be in the north. As it's plant life is northern, it's weather is northern, and it's southern accent is diluted and scarce. The people begin to sound as Pennsylvanians or Ohioans.
Geographically and culturally the Mason-Dixon is tired and inaccurate. It's so far up north for one thing, and for another it was originally put in place to settle land squabbles between PA, VA and Maryland. It was later a north/south border, and when that was put in place, the nation was far smaller (if I'm not mistaken, Florida was still Spanish and Mississippi/Alabama were unorganized at the time).
To me a far more accurate line would be what I call the Delaware line. Draw a line from the south-west boundary of DE and extend it westward to the Ohio river. It works much better than the old M-D.
And to me, Texas, Oklahoma and CERTAINLY Arkansas/N Carolina are southern.
I refer to Texas and Oklahoma as the "Frontier south". And Arkansas/N Carolina are well within their cultural and geographical rights to be southern. :P
That's my opinion.
Maryland, Virginia, West VA, Oklahoma and Texas are NOT truly southern IMO.
MD, VA, West VA are mid-atlantic. OKlahoma is midwestern and texas is southwestern.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,552,637 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaOnIce
Maryland, Virginia, West VA, Oklahoma and Texas are NOT truly southern IMO.
MD, VA, West VA are mid-atlantic. OKlahoma is midwestern and texas is southwestern.
You're sure about Virginia? Southwestern Virginia is pretty southern-Appalachian. And southern WV is quite like Kentucky from my experience.
You're sure about Virginia? Southwestern Virginia is pretty southern-Appalachian. And southern WV is quite like Kentucky from my experience.
*grins* Actually, CS...I think this poster is the other guy under a different name. Too many similarities. And? I am always a little suspicious as those who don't provide even a semblence of information about themselves.
LATER EDIT: Sorry. mis-spoke, perhaps! Anyway, if a Mod can remove this post, then I would apprciate it. I may have spoken too hastily.
Maryland, Virginia, West VA, Oklahoma and Texas are NOT truly southern IMO.
MD, VA, West VA are mid-atlantic. OKlahoma is midwestern and texas is southwestern.
I alway enjoy a good debate! How do you figure (so far as the bolded part goes) as to the classification. Asking!
Last edited by TexasReb; 12-21-2010 at 03:35 PM..
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Apology for the length...
