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As a male I dont believe I have the right to tell or suggest how an entire gender should dress? Afterall, who am I to make such a decision for someone else?
Women should dress as conservatively or as provocatively as they want. It's called freedom of choice.
If a woman chooses to dress as a scantily clad lady of the night, then by all means she should be free to do so without fear of rape, cat-calls, etc... It's her choice. And if a woman wants to dress like an Amish woman than let her--- who cares really?
Please do not post any more "this is what happened to me" stories. The post will be deleted in its entirety. I am no longer going to try to edit these posts. Among other things, Great Debates has very stringent language rules and too many posters do not seem to be able to avoid using filtered words - which, yes, I understand why that happens with this subject. Aside from that, in Great Debates anecdotal evidence (ie, a personal story) is supposed to be BREIF, and only supposed to be used to support a point, not be the focus of the post. That type of posting belongs in another forum.
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There have been repeated postings on CD that women will be harassed regardless of their clothing choices. It's not about the clothing, but the idea that women are not worthy of being treated with respect. The clothing is just an excuse.
Men and women should be treated with respect regardless of their fashion choices.
The question should not be...should women dress conservatively. The question should be....why do a few men feel it's necessary to harass women.
Saying hi, a nice compliment, a look....all fine.
Saying..., following a woman and leering at her, grabbing a woman etc..... is not okay.
A man who harasses women will do it because they think women are sex objects and not people. Men in the past have harassed women for showing an ankle, not being escorted, wearing pants, etc.... It's not about the clothes. We could wear burkas and they would still find a way to do it. It's about dominating women and getting a thrill from the harassment.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-08-2015 at 05:18 PM..
Reason: Language - if a word has to be altered to get past our filters or is blanked out by them it isn't allowed to be used.
There have been repeated postings on CD that women will be harassed regardless of their clothing choices. It's not about the clothing, but the idea that women are not worthy of being treated with respect. The clothing is just an excuse.
Men and women should be treated with respect regardless of their fashion choices.
The question should not be...should women dress conservatively. The question should be....why do a few men feel it's necessary to harass women.
Saying hi, a nice compliment, a look....all fine.
Saying...nice ****, following a woman and leering at her, grabbing a woman etc..... is not okay.
A man who harasses women will do it because they think women are sex objects and not people. Men in the past have harassed women for showing an ankle, not being escorted, wearing pants, etc.... It's not about the clothes. We could wear burkas and they would still find a way to do it. It's about dominating women and getting a thrill from the harassment.
Serious question. So are you saying women where you live who dress like nuns are hit on just as much as those dressed like a prostitute or a club hopper? I'm asking because where I live most of the women that get hit on aggressively are dressed a certain way....most not all.
There's a reason why people are accusing you of blaming the victim. Every one of your comments seem to focus exclusively on the women on the receiving end of the harassment but none on the the people doing the harassing.
If the person starts the conflict (The harasser) then they should be held accountable for their actions.
Exactly! The problem is the verbal harassment. The focus should be on getting that to stop, not on telling the victim she is the one responsible because of how she is dressed.
Verbal harassment, please. I think the way people anymore think "hello" is harassment, it's ridiculous.
I absolutely agree that a man going around "what's up, sugar, let's go take a ride, the kind that doesn't require a car" and that sort of thing--yes, it's disgusting. At the same time, a little light-hearted complimenting, some staring and raising of the eyebrows, complaining about that--please, stop it, you're being ridiculous.
And yes, while no woman who was raped "asked for it" due to her style of dress, verbal "harassment," even the disgusting kind, is nowhere near rape. Also, I think a woman--and yes, this can go for a man too somewhat--has a responsibility to how she presents herself to the public. Don't give me weather either, I've seen occasion where a woman wore a tank-top, low-cut and no bra, and it was in the low 50s outside with no sunshine and it was drizzling. What was that, other than doing a little "showing off?" (Not that I'm complaining, she looked very lovely indeed.) You didn't have to go all "bug eyed," you could clearly see cleavage from across the room practically--and again, it was in the low 50s, cloudy and drizzling.
Does she have the right to wear that? Yes, she does--however, no, she DOES NOT have the "right" to wear that and then act all offended if a guy does a little staring and raising of the eyebrows. To expect that no one is going to even simply stare at such a sight is completely ridiculous.
Exactly! The problem is the verbal harassment. The focus should be on getting that to stop, not on telling the victim she is the one responsible because of how she is dressed.
Theres no way to stop it. Even if it was illegal people would still do it as people commit crimes everyday. There are always going to be disgusting people in the world. Either you choose to deal with it or you come up with ways to avoid it.
I don't like having to turn my alarm on or lock my doors when leaving my house, but I would rather pay an alarm company every month than have my house broken into. I didn't always have an alarm system but my parents suggested it after my house was broken into. Were they blaming the victim?
Again some men can say some very disgusting and degrading things to women and they are totally to blame for their actions but if you want to avoid them, there are ways to minimize dealing with folks like that.
Serious question. So are you saying women where you live who dress like nuns are hit on just as much as those dressed like a prostitute or a club hopper? I'm asking because where I live most of the women that get hit on aggressively are dressed a certain way....most not all.
Being approached in a nice way to show attraction is different from being harassed. I won't even use the words..."hit on".
If they are harassing women, then they would still harass them. I can't tell you some things that have personally happened to me while dresses very frumpy and conservatively because it will be deleted. Trust me, it doesn't matter what someone wears.
Most men are very polite and appreciative ve of an attractive woman, without resorting to harassment. Even if the woman is dressed like a "hooker".
Theres no way to stop it. Even if it was illegal people would still do it as people commit crimes everyday. There are always going to be disgusting people in the world. Either you choose to deal with it or you come up with ways to avoid it.
I don't like having to turn my alarm on or lock my doors when leaving my house, but I would rather pay an alarm company every month than have my house broken into. I didn't always have an alarm system but my parents suggested it after my house was broken into. Were they blaming the victim?
Again some men can say some very disgusting and degrading things to women and they are totally to blame for their actions but if you want to avoid them, there are ways to minimize dealing with folks like that.
Yes, there is a way to stop it. Change the rhetoric and stop blaming women. You don't see people harassing women over wearing pants like they did before the late sixties. The idea that it was inappropriate for women to wear pants changed. The idea that a woman was asking to be harassed if she was walking alone on a street changed. We no longer need an escort to save us from the ravaging males lurking about like the 1800's.
Men are capable of controlling themselves, as evidenced by the vast majority of polite and well behaved men.
Gay men don't harass scantily clad hetero guys. I see men without shirts in Houston most days of the year. They are wearing what is comfortable to them, and they aren't harassed.
Instead of blaming the female, how about blaming the aberrant male. (I'm not talking about the regular guy who tells a woman she looks pretty in a dress or says hi. We all know what harassment looks like.)
Do you really think a guy that treats women lower than dirt will change his ways because she wears something different? He still thinks she is less than and deserving of harassment, just because he finds her attractive.
Verbal harassment, please. I think the way people anymore think "hello" is harassment, it's ridiculous.
I absolutely agree that a man going around "what's up, sugar, let's go take a ride, the kind that doesn't require a car" and that sort of thing--yes, it's disgusting. At the same time, a little light-hearted complimenting, some staring and raising of the eyebrows, complaining about that--please, stop it, you're being ridiculous.
And yes, while no woman who was raped "asked for it" due to her style of dress, verbal "harassment," even the disgusting kind, is nowhere near rape. Also, I think a woman--and yes, this can go for a man too somewhat--has a responsibility to how she presents herself to the public. Don't give me weather either, I've seen occasion where a woman wore a tank-top, low-cut and no bra, and it was in the low 50s outside with no sunshine and it was drizzling. What was that, other than doing a little "showing off?" (Not that I'm complaining, she looked very lovely indeed.) You didn't have to go all "bug eyed," you could clearly see cleavage from across the room practically--and again, it was in the low 50s, cloudy and drizzling.
Does she have the right to wear that? Yes, she does--however, no, she DOES NOT have the "right" to wear that and then act all offended if a guy does a little staring and raising of the eyebrows. To expect that no one is going to even simply stare at such a sight is completely ridiculous.
No one thinks saying hi is harassment. We all know what constitutes harassment. I dress conservatively and I have been terribly harassed before. It wasn't because of my fashion choices.
A female can act however she wants regardless of how she dresses. (As long as she isn't harassing others. )It's clothing not an indication of sexual interest in a random guy.
A male can act however he wants too, as long as it's not harassment. ( I repeat....hi, a nice compliment, a smile, etc.... Is NOT HARASSMENT.)
There are a myriad of reasons a woman might dress scantily. Weight gain in specific areas, looking nice for your spouse or BF, trying to attract a specific guy, maybe she was with a guy who controlled her clothing choice and she is finally free, whatever....
It's not a blatant invitation for every single guy on the street to harass her.
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