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Why is it that everyone gets fired up about single moms collecting welfare or government assistance, but no one gets fired up when the same mom can't collect child support?
We seem to be directing our anger at the wrong issue. I am a firm believer that if they fix the child support system we will see great improvement in the welfare system.
I do not believe women should be awarded child support unless they were married to the father of the child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck
Why do they not do more to collect support from dead beats? Why are the tax payers not pushing for child support enforcement to collect these bad debts?
I see far too many abuses of the system, including ridiculous child support award amounts, money being spent by the mother on the mother, instead of on the children, plus visitation issues.
Unmarried women with children should be living with their mothers and fathers, or mothers or fathers or another family member instead of being bank-rolled by the tax-payers.
I am in Maryland. I have an ex with a high salary so it is not like he can't afford to pay. He chooses to not want to pay. Big difference. He has now quit his job and started a fake company to avoid the garnishment even though he still physically works for the same employer.
Child support enforcement takes forever to actually do anything. Took 7 months to get his wages garnished after the initial order. At that point he was well over $10k in arrears. He then quit a few jobs, then found a shady employer to hep him hide from the garnishment.
Over the last couple years, I have provided them copies of his tax returns, bank statements, utility bills, pay stubs, green card, passport, vehicle titles, etc. in otherwords everything to make it very easy for them to punish him. Do they? Nope. Had to go last week to request a hearing so I can get an order for non payment and he will start being arrested. But really what does that do? He pays $500 to get out until the next time he is picked up.
They need to force these dead beats to pay.
I know here in Oregon if you don't pay child support, 1) You can be arrested for contempt of court, 2) your drivers license will be suspended, 3) any state tax refund will be returned to the party you owe child support to.
So if the wife never worked because they both agreed that they wanted their kids raised by a stay at home mom, she just has to give up custody because she's not prepared to earn enough to take over the mortgage if he leaves?? And the kids who spent all day with mom are now thrust into day care or spending their lives in some tiny apartment because they BOTH decided as a couple that she wouldn't work and now he wants to go off with his 19 year old intern?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
Maybe, maybe not - I'd say there's usually a gap between what you'd collect as child support versus the quite low standard in order to get welfare - so quite a big "donut hole" where life would be more difficult than need be if the ex didn't pay what was owed.
Is anyone giving the ex a printing press? And what if the woman had something to do with the marriage's failure?
Perfect. I repped this post. I see far too many abuses of the system, including ridiculous child support award amounts, money being spent by the mother on the mother, instead of on the children, plus visitation issues.
I made similar points here (link). Mostly, they're ignored. The politically correct assumption is that the father/husband is a cross between a printing press and a thoroughly evil person. In fact usually both parties contribute to the breakdown of a marriage. To some extent this may be fueled when a woman has the expectation of living the life of the rich and famous based upon the awards they see being given (which of course are rarely paid). The means of the husband should be taken into account and considered far more realistically than at current.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Unmarried women with children should be living with their mothers and fathers, or mothers or fathers or another family member instead of being bank-rolled by the tax-payers.
If someone cannot afford to raise a child they should not have them. Sex should be no more available as free recreation than downhill skiing or attendance at a movie theater or Broadway show. One of the problems of the inner city is that sex is an easily available form of release and pleasure when other constructive activities don't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
I do not believe women should be awarded child support unless they were married to the father of the child.
I have some quibbles with this. Per my point just above and yes, I switched the order when quoting your post, if the father can be ascertained, he has both a role in the procreation process and the ability to prevent birth. Both are equal-opportunity child creators unless there's a rape involved.
I sense a lot of bitterness towards men in general.
My brother got divorced, his ex used 1 paystub from his work to determine his CS amount in court. It just happened to be a week of shutdown at the factory where they worked 84 hours in that one week (that's 7-12 hour shifts). When he went back to 40 hour weeks he still had to pay what amounted to %75 of his GROSS income in CS. All this despite the human resources officer testifying in court that the overtime was for a short period of scheduled shutdown maintenance. They also brought normal 40hr paystubs and W2s showing that he made no where near that amount. He still got boned.
2 years later she imploded on drugs and was homeless. My brother now has the kids and has never sought CS from her. She hasn't seen the kids in over 5 years. How was a case so extreme as this not seen for what it was at the time?
I told my brother he was an idiot for marrying this girl to begin with so while I helped him, he had to live with the consequences. The same should be said for many of these women.
I'm sure that many of these women know these guys are deadbeats before they have kids with them, but they still choose to do so. If he already has kids with another woman and isn't paying CS what makes you think he'll be any different to you? But you love him and are going to change him right? Don't act all indignant and surprised when he drops you without any support. You're an idiot and your circumstances are likely related to your poor decision making, your poor child doesn't deserve this and that's the sad part.
Lastly, what is never addressed is that the recipient of CS almost always treats it like just another form of income to be spent on whatever is needed at the time. I know my brothers ex and a couple other women who receive CS who use it on everything but the kids. They're quick to justify it though. I need this new phone so I can keep in touch with my kids/their school/daycare etc. I need these new clothes so I can look good and go get a job. I need this new car to take my babies to X Y Z.
Lowonluck, as bad as your situation is imagine that you had to pay him money while both of you maintained your current lifestyle. In addition to that, imagine that not only do you pay him money, he has the kids and you almost never get to see them. That's a reality for many men. There are 2 sides to every story. I'm truly sorry for your circumstances and hope the courts/legal system catches up and sets things right for you.
Is anyone giving the ex a printing press? And what if the woman had something to do with the marriage's failure?
It doesn't matter...if they agreed as a couple that she would forgo a career in order to raise the children, then of course he must be responsible for the repurcussions of that decision if the marriage doesn't work. Do I think in any cases the courts are biased and men get the shaft much of the time? I do...but ending the child support requirement is not the solution.
What a ridiculous statement. That's like saying no one should ever take a job unless they know that they will never make a mistake.
It takes two people to create a pregnancy. It's not the child's fault that either the mother or the father may get sick, or have an accident, or have a family emergency....or ANY number of things that can happen to a person to disrupt their financial well-being. If you don't want to pay child support, you need to ensure that you don't create a child. **** happens. Get used to it.
Of course things happen and situations change. But I agree to some extent. I just don't see having children and expect/trust that someone else is always going to provide for them financially with no back up plan. That is why most people carry insurance policies. I 100% believe BOTH parents should be held responsible for the support of their children but I could never willingly put myself in a position where I could not support them myself if need be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
So if the wife never worked because they both agreed that they wanted their kids raised by a stay at home mom, she just has to give up custody because she's not prepared to earn enough to take over the mortgage if he leaves?? And the kids who spent all day with mom are now thrust into day care or spending their lives in some tiny apartment because they BOTH decided as a couple that she wouldn't work and now he wants to go off with his 19 year old intern?
Again, why would anyone put themselves in that position. I'm in my 50's and have had only one peer that did not have the education/training or ability to financially support themselves and kids if need be. Even those who were SAHMs for a while had a fall back so they could return to work.
Im not saying fathers should not pay child support, of course they should. I just believe they should pay based on what they are actually earning. And I think its crazy on both spouses to have 5 or 6 kids and be dependent on only one income earner. Why would you have children you might not be able to support if something were to happen.
I made similar points here (link). Mostly, they're ignored. The politically correct assumption is that the father/husband is a cross between a printing press and a thoroughly evil person. In fact usually both parties contribute to the breakdown of a marriage. To some extent this may be fueled when a woman has the expectation of living the life of the rich and famous based upon the awards they see being given (which of course are rarely paid). The means of the husband should be taken into account and considered far more realistically than at current.
My ex is an evil person and he is the one that left our relationship. I won't say that I was not relieved because his bipolar, manic phases were a strain and stress that I was over dealing with. Case in point, I am friends with all of my exes, including my ex husband, with the exception of my sons father. If I can be friendly with all the rest, who is the problem? We never will get a long because of his narcissistic and crazy behavior. And a child protection services caseworker has testified in court about his crazy behavior. I just do not associate with liars and manipulative people.
He easily makes 5x my salary including the cash he deposits to his account, but since he left me and adopted a single mom with two kids, he states he can't afford to support our child. She does not work. That is not fair to our child. He chose to adopt another family before considering what he could afford and not. He pays $900 a month in car payments because he went right out and bought 3 cars. He pays a jewelry credit card $300 a month. Those are his priorities. He belongs in jail.
I sense a lot of bitterness towards men in general.
My brother got divorced, his ex used 1 paystub from his work to determine his CS amount in court. It just happened to be a week of shutdown at the factory where they worked 84 hours in that one week (that's 7-12 hour shifts). When he went back to 40 hour weeks he still had to pay what amounted to %75 of his GROSS income in CS. All this despite the human resources officer testifying in court that the overtime was for a short period of scheduled shutdown maintenance. They also brought normal 40hr paystubs and W2s showing that he made no where near that amount. He still got boned.
2 years later she imploded on drugs and was homeless. My brother now has the kids and has never sought CS from her. She hasn't seen the kids in over 5 years. How was a case so extreme as this not seen for what it was at the time?
I told my brother he was an idiot for marrying this girl to begin with so while I helped him, he had to live with the consequences. The same should be said for many of these women.
I'm sure that many of these women know these guys are deadbeats before they have kids with them, but they still choose to do so. If he already has kids with another woman and isn't paying CS what makes you think he'll be any different to you? But you love him and are going to change him right? Don't act all indignant and surprised when he drops you without any support. You're an idiot and your circumstances are likely related to your poor decision making, your poor child doesn't deserve this and that's the sad part.
Lastly, what is never addressed is that the recipient of CS almost always treats it like just another form of income to be spent on whatever is needed at the time. I know my brothers ex and a couple other women who receive CS who use it on everything but the kids. They're quick to justify it though. I need this new phone so I can keep in touch with my kids/their school/daycare etc. I need these new clothes so I can look good and go get a job. I need this new car to take my babies to X Y Z.
Lowonluck, as bad as your situation is imagine that you had to pay him money while both of you maintained your current lifestyle. In addition to that, imagine that not only do you pay him money, he has the kids and you almost never get to see them. That's a reality for many men. There are 2 sides to every story. I'm truly sorry for your circumstances and hope the courts/legal system catches up and sets things right for you.
I have our son 90% of the time. He can barely handle the four overnights a month he gets now. He had more time. He physically abused our son who was 4 at the time.
In our case I submitted 3 years worth of tax returns and 6 months of pay stubs and they factored child support on his "bosses" testimony that his salary was being reduced going forward. His most recent tax return proves that was a lie...
So no, men do not always get a rough deal.
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That's like saying no one should ever take a job unless they know that they will never make a mistake. 
