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Isn't a fear of punishment the basis for society and their laws when they are broken? Do you not believe in being "punished" if you break a law? Whether incarceration or paying a fine (and in some societies, physical punishment)? Shouldn't "fear of punishment" start at home when the child is young?
Yes, but the issue is whether that punishment should be physical violence or not. In the USA we don't allow physical violence (whippings, beatings, etc.) as a punishment for breaking laws (death penalty being the exception). So why is it okay to use physical violence on children but not on anyone else?
Isn't a fear of punishment the basis for society and their laws when they are broken? Do you not believe in being "punished" if you break a law? Whether incarceration or paying a fine (and in some societies, physical punishment)? Shouldn't "fear of punishment" start at home when the child is young?
No. The basis for modern society is cooperation and mutual respect. Fear of punishment is the reason sociopaths don't commit more crimes.
I certainly believe in punishment for breaking the law, or transgressing a rule at home, but I don't think that should be the motivating factor. Otherwise, people will just do whatever they think they can get away with.
This is an utterly ridiculous argument. Do you hit your workmates so that they respect you? Do you hit your wife/husband to gain respect? Why do you only hit children? Is it because they cannot defend themselves?
Well for one I don't have children yet. For another, the reason I would spank my child but not my workmates is because at that age, that's the main thing they understand. I hate using anecdotes but when I was growing up, I didn't understood why throwing computer equipment off of a three story window was a bad thing (true story BTW). However I did understood that if I ever do that again, my bottom is going to be sore after my dad found out what happened. Also for that I wasn't allowed to get new toys until we moved to the US (which wasn't too far away at the time). However that wasn't the thing that kept me from doing it again. Spankings for me stopped whatever behavior I was doing. Of course as I got older, I understood the why behind the do's and don't's and spankings became less and less.
No. The basis for modern society is cooperation and mutual respect. Fear of punishment is the reason sociopaths don't commit more crimes.
I certainly believe in punishment for breaking the law, or transgressing a rule at home, but I don't think that should be the motivating factor. Otherwise, people will just do whatever they think they can get away with.
Well the motivating factor is in the eye of the beholder. Cooperation and mutual respect starts from parenting and teaching at a very young age, and in today's society, even that is questionable unfortunately. The justified reaction to wrong doings should be some sort of punishment no matter who you are or where you live. Whether you choose to see what you can "get away with" leads me back to parenting and teaching at a very young age which includes INTEGRITY.
Well for one I don't have children yet. For another, the reason I would spank my child but not my workmates is because at that age, that's the main thing they understand. I hate using anecdotes but when I was growing up, I didn't understood why throwing computer equipment off of a three story window was a bad thing (true story BTW). However I did understood that if I ever do that again, my bottom is going to be sore after my dad found out what happened. Also for that I wasn't allowed to get new toys until we moved to the US (which wasn't too far away at the time). However that wasn't the thing that kept me from doing it again. Spankings for me stopped whatever behavior I was doing. Of course as I got older, I understood the why behind the do's and don't's and spankings became less and less.
When you do eventually have children (god help them) then you will hopefully realize that they understand a lot more than you think and that physical violence is far from the only form of punishment and far from the most effective form of punishment.
When you do eventually have children (god help them) then you will hopefully realize that they understand a lot more than you think and that physical violence is far from the only form of punishment and far from the most effective form of punishment.
How do you know it is far from the most effective form of punishment? That is what gets me about these discussions. Don't try to state something as a fact when many in this thread have said that it was/is effective in their situations. If you are going to make a statement like that, at least say "in MY opinion" or "from MY experience".
How do you know it is far from the most effective form of punishment? That is what gets me about these discussions. Don't try to state something as a fact when many in this thread have said that it was/is effective in their situations. If you are going to make a statement like that, at least say "in MY opinion" or "from MY experience".
There is tons of scientific evidence to support my point. Here are but a couple.
Key points
Numerous studies have found that physical punishment increases the risk of broad and enduring negative developmental outcomes.
No study has found that physical punishment enhances developmental health.
Most child physical abuse occurs in the context of punishment.
A professional consensus is emerging that parents should be supported in learning nonviolent, effective approaches to discipline.
Stacy Drury, a professor of psychiatry and behavioral science at Tulane University, told the New Republic, “The goal of discipline, which actually comes from the Latin root meaning ‘to teach,’ is to change behavior. And physical discipline across many, many, many studies is ineffective at changing behavior and it’s ineffective for many reasons ... corporal punishment actually teaches children is that aggression is an acceptable method of problem solving.”
How do you know it is far from the most effective form of punishment? That is what gets me about these discussions. Don't try to state something as a fact when many in this thread have said that it was/is effective in their situations. If you are going to make a statement like that, at least say "in MY opinion" or "from MY experience".
In freshman (high school, not college) English, we learned that prefacing everything you write with "in my opinion" is the sign of a weak writer. We understand no one here represents anything other than their own opinion.
Even then, it's more than just a single opinion. I'll assume you've missed the links to numerous academic studies that have demonstrated in a more rigorous way that spanking is less effective than other, non-physical forms of discipline.
When you do eventually have children (god help them) then you will hopefully realize that they understand a lot more than you think and that physical violence is far from the only form of punishment and far from the most effective form of punishment.
I never said it was the only form of punishment. However it is an effective form.
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