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In Texas, corporal punishment of a child is legal. It becomes illegal when "bodily injury" results. The state Attorney General's web site offers advice about when discipline becomes abusive:
"Spanking with the bare, open hand is least likely to be abusive; the use of an instrument is cause for concern. Belts and hair brushes are accepted by many as legitimate disciplinary "tools," and their use is not likely to be considered abusive, as long as injury does not occur. Electrical or phone cords, boards, yardsticks, ropes, shoes, and wires are likely to be considered instruments of abuse."
Further:
"Finally, and most important, punishment is abusive if it causes injury. A blow that causes a red mark that fades in an hour is not likely to be judged abusive. On the other hand, a blow that leaves a bruise, welt, or swelling, or requires medical attention, probably would be judged abusive."
As of this date, the corporal punishment of children is legal in all 50 states, with some states outlawing its use only in schools.
I've raised a few rowdy boys. Sometimes a bare ***-whipping with a leather paddle was necessary. It hurt like hell but there were no marks, bruises, or welts. The boy in question at the time most definitely learned a lesson and never did/said the offense again. All are now in college or have graduated; all are well-adjusted. Do I regret it ? No.
I would think someone with this mindset is indeed incapable of regret. It would open yourself up to see how flawed this method and your pride is. I sincerely cannot endorse or support this manner of harm.
So many people have stated this but I have yet to see any legitimate scientific proof of this. Many of those "studies" are so biased that all the examples should be thrown out the window.
And your bias is clearly showing. Offer some proof that physical punishment is good as a default solution, which is what you're indirectly proposing. You can't, because there is none. And, quite frankly, given the obvious "back in mah day, people got gud whippin's and turned out great" nonsense that we see on this thread supporting corporal punishment because of some deluded belief that "people back in the day were better, and clearly spanking them was the reason for that," there really is no reason to support your position.
I suspect you're leaving because you don't want to or can't explain why you think inflicting pain is necessary to "teach good behavior". Or perhaps because you think spanking isn't painful. It is painful. I think causing pain in the service of getting someone to do what you want them to do is violence. I understand there are varying levels of violence, and spanking is one of the mildest, but I disagree that it isn't violent in the least.
Nope. You suspect wrongly. First, I never said it was necessary to spank. I know it can be painful--although a little swat is not painful--it just gets their attention.
I'm leaving because I'm sick of saying the same thing over and over and over yet some people are still equating a little swat or a spank with an open hand with child abuse like whipping or beating.
When I was growing up, this is what was done. In an upper middle class town. I think a lot of the problem today is TOO MUCH helicopter parenting and permissiveness. I am a liberal, if that matters. But I am still leaving the discussion.
Me and my siblings were spanked when we were growing up when we did something outright dangerous or were defiant/disobedient. My dad had "the Spoon" which was a wooden spoon that he would spank us with. When we heard our dad walking loudly to the kitchen and loudly rummaging in the drawer where The Spoon was kept...it was time to sit down and be QUIET, lol.
He actually only used The Spoon a couple of times but I guess it was the threat of it
Generally it was an open-handed swatting on the arse. None of us are mentally damaged as a result of it and like to joke about "The Spoon". I even whittled a "Spoon" ornament for my mom and dad who got a real kick out of it.
I am not a big believer in spankings myself. They should only be used very sparingly in rare situations where the kid has done something dangerous and only mainly to get their attention rather than inflict pain. A couple of open-handed swats are sufficient. I've only spanked my daughter twice and both times were just a couple of swats on a diapered behind. Once for running towards a busy road after being told repeatedly to stand next to me and not go near the road and a second time for trying to shove a key into an electrical outlet. I've usually preferred to go with time outs, revocation of privileges, groundings, taking electronics away, etc. If you ask my daughter, she will tell you that revocation of computer time and having her cell taken away are worse than any spanking could ever be
And your bias is clearly showing. Offer some proof that physical punishment is good as a default solution, which is what you're indirectly proposing. You can't, because there is none. And, quite frankly, given the obvious "back in mah day, people got gud whippin's and turned out great" nonsense that we see on this thread supporting corporal punishment because of some deluded belief that "people back in the day were better, and clearly spanking them was the reason for that," there really is no reason to support your position.
That is not my job to prove that to anyone. It is my job to "argue" why it was done in MY household. I have stated in more than one reply, to each his own and it is YOUR job as a parent to decide what is best for your household. I have never said anyone was WRONG if they don't spank their kids, I simply stated I was spanked and I turned out "ok" with no lingering mental issues and MY kids were spanked and I can guarantee they have no lingering mental issues associated with their spankings. I don't have to go into detail on why, when, where unless I am on trial in a court of law, but for the sake of this thread I spanked with my bare hand and my wife was an advocate of the "wooden spoon" and bare hand.
Whatever studies that have been done in the past does not take into consideration cultural, generational, geographical, etc. stats and mix them all into one concise conclusion. ALL of those have to be taken into consideration! You can't just pick and choose one and roll with an outcome because the data would be inconclusive. One could argue that blacks in general have a higher percentage of being advocates of spankings, but then you can poll whites who were born and raised in southern states and find that they have an alarming high rate of being advocates of spanking. Why is that? And don't get me started on my Latino brothers and sisters! I have a lot of Latino friends and they all joke about being "smacked" when they were younger! Why is that? So there are many perimeters to consider when taking an accurate poll.
But it is one thing that can be taken as somewhat fact, 2-3 generations ago, kids (in general) had more "respect" for their parents and authority no matter what the punishment was. So what has changed with today's generation? Is it the parents fault?
BTW, The Brookings Institute, a non-profit public policy organization recently stated: "Children spanked frequently and/or severely are at higher risk for mental health problems, ranging from anxiety and depression to alcohol and drug abuse, according to some research studies. Children whose parents hit them regularly may also develop more distant parent-child relationships later on." Notice the phrase frequently and/or severly. But when it was all said and done, their poll conclusion was: 81% of parents say that spanking their children is sometimes appropriate.
I would think someone with this mindset is indeed incapable of regret. It would open yourself up to see how flawed this method and your pride is. I sincerely cannot endorse or support this manner of harm.
As Frank sang, "regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention".
What "mindset" do you think you've discovered in me ? And how does this "mindset" lead to an absence of regret ? I think you're being way way way judgmental. You don't know anything about me (or my boys, for that matter) that would enable you to make that kind of conclusion.
Here's what I think generally: kids need to learn that actions have consequences. When that lesson isn't being learned after multiple corrections and educational sessions, sometimes another method (the temporary infliction of pain and embarrassment, without injury) might be useful. Now, that method might lead to compliance, or it may not. But it should remain available for use in the judgment of the parent.
I despise the growth of the ever-vigilant nanny state, and its rules and prohibitions that have no basis other than a sense of superior morality. There has never been a study that definitively shows corporal punishment has an adverse effect on children while controlling for all possible variables. Parents should be allowed to rear their children as they see fit, as long as abuse is not involved. "Abuse" is well-defined and does not encompass the infliction of temporary pain without injury.
Spanking is not abuse. When I was a kid I got spanked a few times and guess what? I stopped being a little turd real fast!
Children are awful, they need to be disciplined. When words don't work, a paddle does.
Whipped and beaten though? No. Those are more akin to abuse.
And a paddle isnt abuse.... the things you learn on Data.....its amazing. and what amazes me even more is that the bible belt seem to use whippings etc more than others.. so have these children to live in the fear of god as well as the fear of their parent....if theres a God. then God save the little children..Check out this idiot squirting soap in her sons mouth for lying, jeezo.. that sort of thing is both dangerous and cruel. what was she thinking, its outdated too as I can remember teachers doing it to boys who swore in class... barbaric sadists with a perversion.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWFudcOHwJ8
Last edited by dizzybint; 08-14-2017 at 01:00 AM..
And a paddle isnt abuse.... the things you learn on Data.....its amazing. and what amazes me even more is that the bible belt seem to use whippings etc more than others.. so have these children to live in the fear of god as well as the fear of their parent....if theres a God. then God save the little children..Check out this idiot squirting soap in her sons mouth for lying, jeezo.. that sort of thing is both dangerous and cruel. what was she thinking, its outdated too as I can remember teachers doing it to boys who swore in class... barbaric sadists with a perversion.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWFudcOHwJ8
I would ask any parent who supports corporal punishment, would they accept the same treatment themselves? For instance, if they get a speeding ticket or other moving violation, will they submit to an authority figure bending them over and swatting their rear ends? With an open hand, a wooden spoon, a leather paddle, etc? If they commit perjury, can the judge fill their mouths with soap? When they miss a deadline at work, would they allow their boss to spank some sense into them?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint
Check out this idiot squirting soap in her sons mouth for lying, jeezo.. that sort of thing is both dangerous and cruel. what was she thinking, its outdated too as I can remember teachers doing it to boys who swore in class... barbaric sadists with a perversion.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWFudcOHwJ8
I once had a co-worker who admitted in front of everyone that she did this to her daughter, and daughter later died of leukemia.
No, natural consequences are much better. If you use physical punishment on children, this makes you "the bad guy". From a kid's perspective, it is not a consequence of their actions, rather, it is you, the parent, being a narcissistic, overcontrolling boss that cannot negotiate and uses physical force instead.
Hitting by any other name is still hitting.
Everybody, adults and children alike, needs to see how actions relate to consequences. And "consequences" does not mean "punishment". It means "the natural result of an action". For example, the consequence for a child who pesters someone and is rude is that the child gets shunned by that person or asked to leave.
If you don't allow children to experience natural consequences, then again you are the "bad guy", because the child sees nothing really wrong about the act aside from the fact that you don't allow it.
If you think a 6-year-old can't sense that you are imposing something on them by authoritarian fiat, or if you think children don't need to know the real reason something is wrong, you are mistaken.
Obviously you can't allow a 2-year-old to drink a bottle of cough medicine to teach them about "natural consequences", but you certainly can allow children to express their opinions, and talk to them with the recognition that they are free to believe you are mistaken about something and are free to express their opinion just as an adult is. "Talking back" should NEVER be grounds for punishment. The freedom of speech and the freedom of thought are available to all ages.
You don't "negotiate" with a 2 year old. Don't agree with "whipping" a child, but the reality is that every parent uses physical force on their child in some manner. Picking them up when they get too close to a danger; forcing a crying child into a car seat; these are all behaviors that in the adult world, would be described as assault. I guess my point is that while spanking probably isn't the best choice in most cases, parents continuously restrain and "assault" their children in many other ways, and no one seems to be making a fuss about that.
Regardless of the methods a parent uses, if love underlies their parenting, it's all going to turn out well. If a parent is innately sadistic or intolerant or is a power and control personality, then abuse may occur on many levels, both physical and verbal. And in many ways, verbal is worse.
Someone made the observation that children in previous generations were generally more respectful and obedient. To me the primary difference is technology, not the discipline approach of the parents. Children are constantly exposed to images of violence and are taught to be selfish (in general of course there are always exceptions). In other words, whether or not a loving parent spanks a toddler is more or less minutia in the process of raising a child. Abuse and brutal "whippings" of course are an entirely other matter. In that case, the physical abuse may be the least of their torment.
Last edited by GearHeadDave; 08-14-2017 at 06:19 AM..
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