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Also The Clinton Impeachment was for morals and not for crimes which is what Trump is being impeached for so yeah saying it's a partisan lynching is wrong but more accurate than Trumps countless crimes in office.
I am about as apolitical as it gets. I like to read these kind of threads until the hatred gets so bad that all reason is lost. I hardly ever comment on them, but I can't believe no one called you out on this. Bill Clinton was impeached on 4 counts of Lying to a Grand Jury,
The nature and details of his relationship with Lewinsky
Prior false statements he made in the Jones deposition
Prior false statements he allowed his lawyer to make characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
His attempts to tamper with witnesses
and 7 counts of Obstruction of Justice.
Encouraging Lewinsky to file a false affidavit
Encouraging Lewinsky to give false testimony if and when she was called to testify
Concealing gifts he had given to Lewinsky that had been subpoenaed
Attempting to secure a job for Lewinsky to influence her testimony
Permitting his lawyer to make false statements characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
Attempting to tamper with the possible testimony of his secretary Betty Currie
Making false and misleading statements to potential grand jury witnesses
I'm old enough to remember that time pretty well, and at the time I thought that he was probably guilty, but shouldn't be impeached because the majority of people (and congress) wouldn't think it to be a big enough deal. That's exactly what happened. He did lie under oath, very publicly, and he did attempt to obstruct justice. In the end, the Country was in pretty good shape and this was about him and his women, so no one really cared.
I really wish we would try to look at the facts of issues, rather than paint them with our particular political biases. I would really like to know the recent facts about 2016, both Trump and Hillary.
Sounds like you drank the coolaid and are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Every other nation that has Universal Healthcare love it and would never give it up. Americans tend to be cheap and selfish and only care about themselves rather than the public good of the nation. We already pay the most for healthcare and the least amount ohttps://www.quora.com/What-would-be-the-benefits-and-drawbacks-if-the-United-States-gave-everyone-free-healthcaref people are covered.
I don't know what you're talking about. Did you read my post? I condemned the healthcare system as putting profit before the wellbeing of patients. I have to say the tone of your arguments are kind of malevolent so I'm not buying your argument of supporting universal healthcare out of benevolence or public good. If I can't even trust the motivation behind universal healthcare, which seems to be about more tax and spend and not patients, then I certainly can't support it.
The short answer is: Because of extremely weak labor unions.
Labor unions democratize societies like nothing else does. Countries with strong labor union movements have universal health care because labor unions are a big force in their political system. Labor unions are responsible for mass mobilization and organizing during elections and crucially, educating workers year-round, election or not.
In America, the money of the billionaires is the only big force in the elections. There's no counterweight. Workers become easy prey for corporate propaganda in the absence of any counterweight. And billionaires have radically different priorities than the working class represented by labor unions. Billionaires dont need universal health care, or even insurance.
Destroy labor unions and the elected representatives will run into your arms and do your bidding.
Keep voting for the idiots that don't want a living wage for workers and don't want billionaires to pay taxes.
...and keep believing the elites as they "promise" to only go after billionaires right up until they come for your 401k and IRA's. That's it... be a good little voter... let the talking points comfort you.
...and keep believing the elites as they "promise" to only go after billionaires right up until they come for your 401k and IRA's. That's it... be a good little voter... let the talking points comfort you.
Trump told you that "you're the elite" while he spends all his time at his golf courses and country clubs that only cater to rich people, but he has hired undocumented migrants knowingly and praised them for their hard work.
I am about as apolitical as it gets. I like to read these kind of threads until the hatred gets so bad that all reason is lost. I hardly ever comment on them, but I can't believe no one called you out on this. Bill Clinton was impeached on 4 counts of Lying to a Grand Jury,
The nature and details of his relationship with Lewinsky
Prior false statements he made in the Jones deposition
Prior false statements he allowed his lawyer to make characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
His attempts to tamper with witnesses
and 7 counts of Obstruction of Justice.
Encouraging Lewinsky to file a false affidavit
Encouraging Lewinsky to give false testimony if and when she was called to testify
Concealing gifts he had given to Lewinsky that had been subpoenaed
Attempting to secure a job for Lewinsky to influence her testimony
Permitting his lawyer to make false statements characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
Attempting to tamper with the possible testimony of his secretary Betty Currie
Making false and misleading statements to potential grand jury witnesses
I'm old enough to remember that time pretty well, and at the time I thought that he was probably guilty, but shouldn't be impeached because the majority of people (and congress) wouldn't think it to be a big enough deal. That's exactly what happened. He did lie under oath, very publicly, and he did attempt to obstruct justice. In the end, the Country was in pretty good shape and this was about him and his women, so no one really cared.
I really wish we would try to look at the facts of issues, rather than paint them with our particular political biases. I would really like to know the recent facts about 2016, both Trump and Hillary.
Exactly. You had the patience to put that out there I just figured whats the point. Many of us remember it well. And the investigations did not have orchestrated "leaks" to build a narrative in efforts to sway public opinion prior to the "big reveal".
Hence my earlier comments about holding our own accountable FIRST before looking across the aisle earlier in my thread. If the shoe was on the other foot, there is no way the Dem's followers would be good with:
- An investigation without the vote to move forward
- It would not have started in the Intelligence Committee where secrecy and narrative control is easier. the real story is Pelosi doesn't think Naddler is capable of bringing this all the way home (kinda obvious).
- that the Whistle blower heard all of this third hand
- Been OK with a witness's opening statement leaked to the press prior to that witness providing the testimony and cross examination.
- That the original whistle blower will not be called upon to testify after all.
- That the whistle blower submission form was altered just prior to the submission
- That Obama blocked the sale of military weapons
- That Schiff denied meeting with the whistle blower prior to the complaint submission... before he admitted it.
- Why has Ambassador Reeker as a witness being called to testify on Saturday, when the House would not be in session and few members would be able to attend.
- What are Reekers ties
- Why is it OK for Schiff to parody a telephone conversation to create an obvious false narrative and sway public opinion. Proving he comes from a position of an activist and not as an investigator.
- If the investigation is so secret, how is Schiff having selective leaks of obvious cherry-picked information to paint misleading public narratives. Is he not able to control his committee's leaks thus proving he is unqualified to lead this investigation?
- etc etc etc.
All of these same questions would have been ignored if the name was Hillary. If Trump is guilty then so be it, but dang the Dem's are terrible at this. And they have the most willing media of any party! Should be easy. ...and they want to manage my families Health care?! BAHAHHA! No wonder the DMV has long lines our veterans care are run so terribly.
I guess when you have no party loyalty all of this is easier to see. It's so much easier to leap to orange man bad then to also see that Schiff is a shill.
The short answer is: Because of extremely weak labor unions.
Labor unions democratize societies like nothing else does. Countries with strong labor union movements have universal health care because labor unions are a big force in their political system. Labor unions are responsible for mass mobilization and organizing during elections and crucially, educating workers year-round, election or not.
In America, the money of the billionaires is the only big force in the elections. There's no counterweight. Workers become easy prey for corporate propaganda in the absence of any counterweight. And billionaires have radically different priorities than the working class represented by labor unions. Billionaires dont need universal health care, or even insurance.
Destroy labor unions and the elected representatives will run into your arms and do your bidding.
I wonder how many Labor Union Presidents and Union elites became politicians...
I wonder how many Labor Union Presidents and Union elites became politicians...
Why do you think the only real semblance of a public safety net; Social Security and Medicare, took place during the heyday of labor union organizing in the 1930s and 1960s?
When labor unions are destroyed, then the working class will follow the same path. A lone ranger doesnt stand a chance against a well-equipped platoon. Big capital knows this very well. Thats why they are organized and make sure workers are not.
Why do you think the only real semblance of a public safety net; Social Security and Medicare, took place during the heyday of labor union organizing in the 1930s and 1960s?
When labor unions are destroyed, then the working class will follow the same path. A lone ranger doesnt stand a chance against a well-equipped platoon. Big capital knows this very well. Thats why they are organized and make sure workers are not.
So you don't know? I don't either... hence the question.
I grew up in a small rural town in PA in the 70's and 80's. We had about ten factories in town. Mostly fiberglass boat hulls, saw mills, timber and paper processing and wood furniture. Anyways...
In the mid 70's Unions elites came from out of town and promised castles in the sky to the employees and was able to unionize them one by one. Those Union elites were all from out of town and seemed to know what they were talking about. Everyone bought in and paid their dues. Believing someone was going to fight for the little guy. Those Union elites fought so hard against those small town owners that their demands just could not be met over time. They kept pushing and pushing increasing the demands with each passing year. Those small owners just didn't have the customer base or capital to meet the demands. Through that time I saw each one of these small factories close one by one. Many of my school mates fathers and mothers lost their jobs. The Union elites from out of town collected their dues and left when the last factory closed. They came promising a better life for all and instead they "taxed" everyone with dues and wound up with it all shut it all down. They did not care one scrap about those employees. They got their cut.
Thirty-five years later, there are still no factories in that small town. None. The buildings are still there with broken windows and caved in roofs. The schools are struggling, there is no tax base and meth has taken over the current generation. The poverty rate in that small town is double the national rate. Home values are less than half the national average. My father ended up just turning the home we grew up in for 20 years over to HUD. He could not sell it privately but figured it was better then nothing.
Lack of unions does seem to be a factor in areas like Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte. NC is exploding right now. 70 people a day are moving to Raleigh-Durham from CA and the rust belt. Only about 2% of North Carolinian's are in a union. Lowest in the country. That's not an accident and seems to be working judging by the explosive growth.
I saw no future in that rural PA town. It was ruined and likely never coming back. So I married the girl I loved as soon as I could in '88 and we split heading south. It breaks my heart when we go up once a year to visit family and see whats left of town. Yes I blame the out of town Union elites sucking it dry. It didn't matter to them because they didn't live there. They got their $$$ and we saw many of those same names became politicians in the big cities. They used rural America as a stepping stone for personal gain.
I do wonder what the town would be like today had the Unions never showed up. Could the same have happened? We'll never know.
So you don't know? I don't either... hence the question.
I grew up in a small rural town in PA in the 70's and 80's. We had about ten factories in town. Mostly fiberglass boat hulls, saw mills, timber and paper processing and wood furniture. Anyways...
In the mid 70's Unions elites came from out of town and promised castles in the sky to the employees and was able to unionize them one by one. Those Union elites were all from out of town and seemed to know what they were talking about. Everyone bought in and paid their dues. Believing someone was going to fight for the little guy. Those Union elites fought so hard against those small town owners that their demands just could not be met over time. They kept pushing and pushing increasing the demands with each passing year. Those small owners just didn't have the customer base or capital to meet the demands. Through that time I saw each one of these small factories close one by one. Many of my school mates fathers and mothers lost their jobs. The Union elites from out of town collected their dues and left when the last factory closed. They came promising a better life for all and instead they "taxed" everyone with dues and wound up with it all shut it all down. They did not care one scrap about those employees. They got their cut.
Thirty-five years later, there are still no factories in that small town. None. The buildings are still there with broken windows and caved in roofs. The schools are struggling, there is no tax base and meth has taken over the current generation. The poverty rate in that small town is double the national rate. Home values are less than half the national average. My father ended up just turning the home we grew up in for 20 years over to HUD. He could not sell it privately but figured it was better then nothing.
Lack of unions does seem to be a factor in areas like Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte. NC is exploding right now. 70 people a day are moving to Raleigh-Durham from CA and the rust belt. Only about 2% of North Carolinian's are in a union. Lowest in the country. That's not an accident and seems to be working judging by the explosive growth.
I saw no future in that rural PA town. It was ruined and likely never coming back. So I married the girl I loved as soon as I could in '88 and we split heading south. It breaks my heart when we go up once a year to visit family and see whats left of town. Yes I blame the out of town Union elites sucking it dry. It didn't matter to them because they didn't live there. They got their $$$ and we saw many of those same names became politicians in the big cities. They used rural America as a stepping stone for personal gain.
I do wonder what the town would be like today had the Unions never showed up. Could the same have happened? We'll never know.
Everyone should know that the reason we have Medicare and Social Security is because of mass labor organizing.
Looks like you've bought into the anti-worker agenda of the oligarchy.
If you think the ruling class is satisfied with staying in the south, you're delusional. Wages and worker rights are always worse somewhere else. And they move there. Its a race to the bottom. Thats why lone rangers dont stand a chance against this concentrated power. When workers dont organize, their future is decided by Wall Street. You can try and run for Congress and see how you'll do. Even if you work like a dog to get elected and every person in your state support your policies, you wont even get 1% of the vote unless you're swimming in money. Thats the power of money.
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