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Let them collect (mooch) from their parents, siblings, friends, and charity. I do not expect to pay ANYONE to sit on their azz and steal a “universal basic income” from the good productive people who make the world go round.
Only about 30% of the US workforce actually does anything productive. The rest are just moochers and scam artists.
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Maybe Larry will see this!
Larry, I agree with a lot of the things you have said throughout this thread, BUT, you got this one wrong:
The idea of UBI is that EVERYONE will get it, regardless of their income or wealth status. Seriously, I and everyone else who has been telling you this is not making it up. How you THINK it works makes sense, BUT it ISN'T how it ACTUALLY works.
From my last response to you:
You seem to think "basic" means something it doesn't. But, "universal" does, mean universal.
u·ni·ver·sal
/ˌyo͞onəˈvərsəl/
adjective
of, affecting, or done by all people or things in the world or in a particular group; applicable to all cases.
"universal adult suffrage"
noun
a person or thing having universal effect, currency, or application.
Defining Characteristics
Adapted from Bidadanure, 2019, “The Political Theory of Universal Basic Income”
Periodic
It is a recurrent payment (for example every month), rather than a one-off grant.
Cash payment
It is paid in cash, allowing the recipients to convert their benefits into whatever they may like.
Universal
It is paid to all, and not targeted to a specific population.
Individual
It is paid on an individual basis (versus household-based).
Unconditional
It involves no work requirement or sanctions; it is accessible to those in work and out of work, voluntarily or not.
There are many different sources, and the above is universal in the description of UBI.
Once again, the opponents of UBI try to make it a universal income, ignoring the BASIC part. I'm not in favor of a universal income either, just Basic. If you just called it Basic Income, would it make you feel better?
And a unicorn is a mythical beast with a horn growing out of the middle of its head. You can define a fiction all you want, but that doesn't make it real.
You are advocating a universal income. There is an awkward pause in the middle where you put basic, but you want to ignore that part of the phrase. A Universal Basic Income is not a Universal Income. Pretending otherwise is a straw man argument.
First of all, the OP started the thread asking about universal income. Not basic income. Universal. YOU keep posting that universal income is only paid to those who need it. That's incorrect, yet you keep repeating that same thing over and over.
I've provided two links defining universal income. That's what the rest of us are going by - the set definition of what that means.
Secondly, I'm not advocating universal income - where are you getting this?
I just love when people on c-d can't just say, 'Oops, I was mistaken. Thanks for clarifying!' as I do.
Covid has changed the game. Take a drive downtown and see how many jobs you might apply for from all the businesses. Maybe 2 million jobs have been created at grocery stores, delivery apps, and so forth but 30 million have been lost. There's no amount of moxie that will get us out of this.
We will need a UBI tobm prevent socialism once the civil unrest starts.
UBI is never going to work... (pun intended)
When people have free money, why work?
And if you think money is the cure for poverty, let's just credit everyone with 22 billion billion quatloos, so that everyone is equally wealthy and no one needs money ever again.
Does having all that money automagically fill store shelves? Or harvest crops from the field? Or process goods and services? Or ship them?
Why would anyone bother to work or trade property for MORE MONEY that they don't need.
Even the starving children are phenomenally wealthy.
Money madness requires a scarce money token and a high demand for it, to goad people to work and sell their property for more money.
In reality, prosperity is not based on money, even if equally distributed. Prosperity is based on prodigious production of surplus usable goods and services, equitably traded and enjoyed. Unfortunately, money mad people still dream of hitting the Lotto or marrying a wealthy spouse. No one dreams of being more productive and efficient.
Covid has changed the game. Take a drive downtown and see how many jobs you might apply for from all the businesses. Maybe 2 million jobs have been created at grocery stores, delivery apps, and so forth but 30 million have been lost. There's no amount of moxie that will get us out of this.
We will need a UBI tobm prevent socialism once the civil unrest starts.
Bullfeces. All the jobs will return. And more. It’s just an interruption. Nothing basic has changed at all.
Bullfeces. All the jobs will return. And more. It’s just an interruption. Nothing basic has changed at all.
Maybe if the lockdowns had been a week. Not two months, & certainly not indefinitely.
I can drive downtown and point out the businesses that are not coming back & have closed for good. My wife's work just laid off 60% of their staff, and they don't expect to bring them back until 2021 at the earliest because volume will not snap back instantaneously, in no small part because 80% of people say they don't want to be in groups.
That didn't happen in 2008. They reduced staff then, but by much less drastic proportions.
This is going to be worse than 2008. The question is how long it will last and will it be a great depression situation.
Bullfeces. All the jobs will return. And more. It’s just an interruption. Nothing basic has changed at all.
I think some people are mistaken that because the brakes were put on the economy quickly the recovery will also be quick. If you look at Great Depression and Great Recession they were really slow recoveries. Some might argue we never really came back from 2008, we just borrowed our way to recovery. And all this massive debt is strangling us now. And neither of those economic disasters had a pandemic tied to it. And the whole world did not crash at the same time. We could be looking at 2 years of on and off lock downs. Not just here but all over the world. I don't know how you brush that off and move on like nothing happened. I don't see it.
I think some people are mistaken that because the brakes were put on the economy quickly the recovery will also be quick. If you look at Great Depression and Great Recession they were really slow recoveries. Some might argue we never really came back from 2008, we just borrowed our way to recovery. And all this massive debt is strangling us now. And neither of those economic disasters had a pandemic tied to it. And the whole world did not crash at the same time. We could be looking at 2 years of on and off lock downs. Not just here but all over the world. I don't know how you brush that off and move on like nothing happened. I don't see it.
The big difference with this crisis and 2008, or any downturn since the late 1970s really, is that it was not initiated by a fundamental problem with the banking or financial system, or otherwise a consequence of unwise speculation in some sector of the economy connected to finance.
As long as the banks are solvent I think we will avoid a Great Depression sutuation. But I do think what's coming will be worse than 2008. 2008 hit the housing market and its related industries including mortgage banking most notably, which had driven much of the economic success of the mid 00s. Covid19 shock is hitting the entire service sector, which is much a more broadly distributed hit that will affect more Americans.
E.g.: I was in Texas in the 00s, and there wasn't much of a foreclosure crisis there. Its economy went down accordingly in 2008-11 but not nearly as bad as the states that had more of a housing shock like say Nevada or California. So going to Texas to get a better job was a legitimate option. Today, there is nowhere you can go to get away from the virus.
Restaurants were responsible for 10% of American jobs. We can't just lose 85% of those jobs and expect to be fine. Let alone the other services that are now shuttered.
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