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I only need one single incentive. The incentive to control uncertainty and the variance of luck and circumstance by storing money for future use. The government nonsense is a distraction. Let’s get government out of the business of controlling and interfering with interest rates. I’m all for that.
BUT WE CAN'T CONTROL THE UNKNOWN. AT ANY WAGE. Lower income people are hurting bad right now. Either they are essential employees or they lost their jobs. Big business won't hire them, many are cutting back on their own jobs. Savings or none, people are hurting bad and could run out by the time they might be back to work and not by deciding not to make cuts where needed.
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I don’t care about their reason not to be rational. They need to save $2 and live on $10. If that means denying oneself other pleasures so be it. If that means you don’t eat out, so be it. If that means you don’t have kids, so be it. Saving for future uncertainty is JOB 1.
Someone making $12 an hour even with denying pleasures will not make it. At $12 an hour you make just under 19k up to under 25k a year. Perhaps those working 40 hours a week are in better shape. I can say at 19k, that doesn't happen from my own experience and I have cut when I can. I would be worse if I had to rent... The problem is we can't time when savings is needed to be tapped into.
With Covid-19, you likely lost a job and you might be sick and need hospitalization. If you were able to get on unemployment, you don't qualify for Medicaid and you will pay out of pocket. I have seen this story several times so it is common enough.
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Buy health insurance and there’s no problem. That’s a personal choice. Figure it out and make sure you have it. I’ve always had it, and I’ve never given it a second thought. It’s not a choice. It’s just like savings. I must have it, so I prioritize it and get it. Period. Life. Reality. Observe. Do.
It shouldn't be a problem but of course we don't live in a perfect world and there are always gaps and holes you can fall through.
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And the one in a million catastrophic illness that wipes you out is so rare that it doesn’t need to be considered.
I had bad gallbladder attack. That isn't all that rare. And has a $12k price tag, insurance talks it down to the deductible for my plan of $6,200. I didn't have that in savings so it took me about two years plus to pay it down. Gallbladder surgery is about 600,000 per year and that is one issue. It isn't the only one mine you.
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I don’t care. The names are accurate. If one is not saving a percentage of their earnings, they are an objective idiot. It’s not a pejorative. It’s identification of fact.
People who share the same ideals as you are cake-eaters. That is not a prejorative but it is a fact.
BUT WE CAN'T CONTROL THE UNKNOWN. AT ANY WAGE. Lower income people are hurting bad right now. Either they are essential employees or they lost their jobs. Big business won't hire them, many are cutting back on their own jobs. Savings or none, people are hurting bad and could run out by the time they might be back to work and not by deciding not to make cuts where needed.
Someone making $12 an hour even with denying pleasures will not make it. At $12 an hour you make just under 19k up to under 25k a year. Perhaps those working 40 hours a week are in better shape. I can say at 19k, that doesn't happen from my own experience and I have cut when I can. I would be worse if I had to rent... The problem is we can't time when savings is needed to be tapped into.
With Covid-19, you likely lost a job and you might be sick and need hospitalization. If you were able to get on unemployment, you don't qualify for Medicaid and you will pay out of pocket. I have seen this story several times so it is common enough.
It shouldn't be a problem but of course we don't live in a perfect world and there are always gaps and holes you can fall through.
I had bad gallbladder attack. That isn't all that rare. And has a $12k price tag, insurance talks it down to the deductible for my plan of $6,200. I didn't have that in savings so it took me about two years plus to pay it down. Gallbladder surgery is about 600,000 per year and that is one issue. It isn't the only one mine you.
People who share the same ideals as you are cake-eaters. That is not a prejorative but it is a fact.
If you had been saving 20% of your earnings since the beginning of your working life, the $6,200 would have been a nothingburger. But you made it a problem by not making the right choice to save 20% of your earnings each and every week. That’s completely on you. If you have a smartphone, but are not saving 10-20% of your earnings, your priorities are screwed up. If you blew $40 on dinner in a restaurant but didn’t save 10-20% of your weekly earnings, that's all on you. It’s your responsibility to NOT be a mooch-leech. Nobody owes you a red cent. If you want money from other people, ask them for it. You don’t get to make demands for things that don’t belong to you.
So start saving 20% of your earnings next week. Put it in an investment account. No universal basic income. Self-generated basic income. Bootstraps. Not apron strings.
If you had been saving 20% of your earnings since the beginning of your working life, the $6,200 would have been a nothingburger. But you made it a problem by not making the right choice to save 20% of your earnings each and every week. That’s completely on you. If you have a smartphone, but are not saving 10-20% of your earnings, your priorities are screwed up. If you blew $40 on dinner in a restaurant but didn’t save 10-20% of your weekly earnings, that's all on you. It’s your responsibility to NOT be a mooch-leech. Nobody owes you a red cent. If you want money from other people, ask them for it. You don’t get to make demands for things that don’t belong to you.
So start saving 20% of your earnings next week. Put it in an investment account. No universal basic income. Self-generated basic income. Bootstraps. Not apron strings.
Right out of those old manuals they gave newlyweds in 1940. But you and I both know you are just digging down on the holier than though viewpoint because you can. Bottom line, every DAY 109 people (out of 166) in perfect health take their own lives. None of them did it because they were flush with savings. I have already separated out the lovesick teenagers and the old people with cancer. The 109 are the DESPAIR suicides because the American Dream is a crock of ****e and you and I both know it, so just can it.
Everytime there is a crisis the wealth class uses it as an opportunity to stuff more of the Middle Classes tax revenue into their own pockets. While they distracted us with $1200 (one time) bonuses for surviving (this long) they were putting Trillions (again, they did it in 2008) into their own pockets. And 500 billionaires the least of which is making about $13M/hr. don't even pay any taxes on that wealth.
The average worker is in a NEGATIVE cash flow situation. The cost of rent, food, clothes (basic) and a cell phone (yes, dammit, you NEED a cell phone so your boss can call you and tell you what time to clock in) are more than what you can expect to earn in too many cases. What you are saying in so many words is that 40 Million Americans are stupid. I don't believe that that many people can be so utterly stupid that they don't see the wisdom of saving 20% of gross receipts.
Americans used to save. There used to be institutions called 'Savings and Loans'. Passbook interest rates were in the high teens. Money Market and Certificate of Deposit accounts hit 30%. That's how my parents became millionaires. That's how LOTS of post depression parents became millionaires. Maybe that's how YOU became a millionaire. You saved, and your savings earned INTEREST, what a concept. Without that secret sauce you got nothing. Boomers just missed that gravy train, and it was long out of the station when Millenials came along. You are doubling down on OBSOLETE information. Kindly cease and desist.
We are about to enter the age of negative interest rates. You will PAY to save unless you do your saving in a mattress. Even then you will pay to save because inflation will knobble your savings at 5%/yr. Are you done yet? Because I have more if you aren't.
If you had been saving 20% of your earnings since the beginning of your working life, the $6,200 would have been a nothingburger. But you made it a problem by not making the right choice to save 20% of your earnings each and every week. That’s completely on you. If you have a smartphone, but are not saving 10-20% of your earnings, your priorities are screwed up. If you blew $40 on dinner in a restaurant but didn’t save 10-20% of your weekly earnings, that's all on you. It’s your responsibility to NOT be a mooch-leech. Nobody owes you a red cent. If you want money from other people, ask them for it. You don’t get to make demands for things that don’t belong to you.
So start saving 20% of your earnings next week. Put it in an investment account. No universal basic income. Self-generated basic income. Bootstraps. Not apron strings.
I really didn't have a working life at that point. Graduated into 2012's not so good economy, especially in Arizona... I only had about two jobs that I had a paycheck back then. I had $1,000 or so at that point from the job I just finished at the time. There was some bad employers at that time. I tried and hustled to get a job but let's realize employment hasn't been great until I already had a job in 2015, after I knew I needed the surgery...
But yeah assume I had the chance I had a chance to save. You know what happens when someone assumes...
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Right out of those old manuals they gave newlyweds in 1940. But you and I both know you are just digging down on the holier than though viewpoint because you can. Bottom line, every DAY 109 people (out of 166) in perfect health take their own lives. None of them did it because they were flush with savings. I have already separated out the lovesick teenagers and the old people with cancer. The 109 are the DESPAIR suicides because the American Dream is a crock of ****e and you and I both know it, so just can it.
Everytime there is a crisis the wealth class uses it as an opportunity to stuff more of the Middle Classes tax revenue into their own pockets. While they distracted us with $1200 (one time) bonuses for surviving (this long) they were putting Trillions (again, they did it in 2008) into their own pockets. And 500 billionaires the least of which is making about $13M/hr. don't even pay any taxes on that wealth.
The average worker is in a NEGATIVE cash flow situation. The cost of rent, food, clothes (basic) and a cell phone (yes, dammit, you NEED a cell phone so your boss can call you and tell you what time to clock in) are more than what you can expect to earn in too many cases. What you are saying in so many words is that 40 Million Americans are stupid. I don't believe that that many people can be so utterly stupid that they don't see the wisdom of saving 20% of gross receipts.
Americans used to save. There used to be institutions called 'Savings and Loans'. Passbook interest rates were in the high teens. Money Market and Certificate of Deposit accounts hit 30%. That's how my parents became millionaires. That's how LOTS of post depression parents became millionaires. Maybe that's how YOU became a millionaire. You saved, and your savings earned INTEREST, what a concept. Without that secret sauce you got nothing. Boomers just missed that gravy train, and it was long out of the station when Millenials came along. You are doubling down on OBSOLETE information. Kindly cease and desist.
We are about to enter the age of negative interest rates. You will PAY to save unless you do your saving in a mattress. Even then you will pay to save because inflation will knobble your savings at 5%/yr. Are you done yet? Because I have more if you aren't.
Yeah there will be deflation and devaluing of the dollar... I wonder if I might need to move my savings into checking for the time being. I normally put my tax returns there.
Evil people cause evil. Give most people money and they do not become evil or cause evilness.
We already do, most white collar workers are nothing more than corporate welfare jobs. They just need to show up to work and pretend they are productive. Majority of Americans either get their money from a company or the government so most people have money. The problem is how are people spending their money.
We have a society now where anyone have easy access to see how the rich indulge and live and that's the problem. Too many people are trying to keep up with the Jones.
A person making $12/hr can easily get government assistance on healthcare, rent, and food. That alone bumps up their income to over $50k. There are good % of Americans that are very good at gaming the welfare system. The problem again is that they are trying to keep up with the Jones while they must remain in the lower poor class environment in order to keep getting free money.
I just illustrated why giving most people money doesn't make them evil but it keeps people from breaking out of their system of depending on the government.
The old Chinese saying that give people fish and they have fish but teach people how to fish and they will always have fish.
We already do, most white collar workers are nothing more than corporate welfare jobs. They just need to show up to work and pretend they are productive. Majority of Americans either get their money from a company or the government so most people have money. The problem is how are people spending their money.
We have a society now where anyone have easy access to see how the rich indulge and live and that's the problem. Too many people are trying to keep up with the Jones.
A person making $12/hr can easily get government assistance on healthcare, rent, and food. That alone bumps up their income to over $50k. There are good % of Americans that are very good at gaming the welfare system. The problem again is that they are trying to keep up with the Jones while they must remain in the lower poor class environment in order to keep getting free money.
I just illustrated why giving most people money doesn't make them evil but it keeps people from breaking out of their system of depending on the government.
The old Chinese saying that give people fish and they have fish but teach people how to fish and they will always have fish.
The problem I see often, is we don't teach people to fish but instead we rather yell at those that can't fish and browbeat them for not knowing how to fish when they cannot even get the supplies to make a pole and say they don't deserve a fish... I cannot be the only one who notices this.
Right out of those old manuals they gave newlyweds in 1940. But you and I both know you are just digging down on the holier than though viewpoint because you can. Bottom line, every DAY 109 people (out of 166) in perfect health take their own lives. None of them did it because they were flush with savings. I have already separated out the lovesick teenagers and the old people with cancer. The 109 are the DESPAIR suicides because the American Dream is a crock of ****e and you and I both know it, so just can it.
Everytime there is a crisis the wealth class uses it as an opportunity to stuff more of the Middle Classes tax revenue into their own pockets. While they distracted us with $1200 (one time) bonuses for surviving (this long) they were putting Trillions (again, they did it in 2008) into their own pockets. And 500 billionaires the least of which is making about $13M/hr. don't even pay any taxes on that wealth.
The average worker is in a NEGATIVE cash flow situation. The cost of rent, food, clothes (basic) and a cell phone (yes, dammit, you NEED a cell phone so your boss can call you and tell you what time to clock in) are more than what you can expect to earn in too many cases. What you are saying in so many words is that 40 Million Americans are stupid. I don't believe that that many people can be so utterly stupid that they don't see the wisdom of saving 20% of gross receipts.
Americans used to save. There used to be institutions called 'Savings and Loans'. Passbook interest rates were in the high teens. Money Market and Certificate of Deposit accounts hit 30%. That's how my parents became millionaires. That's how LOTS of post depression parents became millionaires. Maybe that's how YOU became a millionaire. You saved, and your savings earned INTEREST, what a concept. Without that secret sauce you got nothing. Boomers just missed that gravy train, and it was long out of the station when Millenials came along. You are doubling down on OBSOLETE information. Kindly cease and desist.
We are about to enter the age of negative interest rates. You will PAY to save unless you do your saving in a mattress. Even then you will pay to save because inflation will knobble your savings at 5%/yr. Are you done yet? Because I have more if you aren't.
A certain proportion of suicides in the population is normal and expected. Mental illness exists. 166 out of 325 million every day? That’s it? That ain’t much at all in the scheme of things. Actually I read 123 per day. That’s a pittance.
Then you argued for smaller government by citing trillions used or misused by the Big State. I agree. Let’s cut the State back by 90% by returning all these taxes to those who earn and own it - the taxpayers. We need a big fat military, some police, some prisons for the brigands and the beasts, and a court system to adjudicate disputes. Beyond that, let’s disband the welfare-industrial complex, get rid of public schools, get rid of entitlements, replace Social Security with Social Individual Pension Security, where you invest your SS withholding for your own individual benefit in stocks, bonds, and real estate. Cool!
And the average American worker lives like a king compared to most other residents of Earth. Opportunity is everywhere for focused hard-working good people who are virtuous and rational. It’s the mooch-leeches that are the problem. The drug users and dealers, the impregnators, the whiner babies that think life is stacked against them because stuff isn’t given to them, the envious mediocrities who hate those who take care of business. Sorry, this is the bootstrapping mofoing land of opportunity. But focus and hard work are required, and that is what the whiner class really hates. They want to take it, not make it.
And interest rates are too low why? Because of progressive-collectivist big effing government being allowed to interfere in setting the price of money. They need zero percent interest or all the budget gets used to pay off the deficit. Again, you are arguing against Big Government and you don’t even know it. Aside from that, most of my passive earnings are not from interest, they are from dividends and equities. It’s called the American Dream and baby do I love investing in it. Capitalism rules the universe!
And you can too. Get to work, start saving 20% of your earnings, open a Fidelity account and start investing that 20% every week. You’ll be a millionaire before you know it. It’s called having effing brains and working hard. Your parents did it. So can you. Nothing has changed. The basic formula is as it’s always been since the Industrial Revolution.
No, the robots are not going to replace you. Not as long as you learn new skills and keep them sharp. And yes, that will require effort. And that’s what the mooch-leeches hate.
The problem I see often, is we don't teach people to fish but instead we rather yell at those that can't fish and browbeat them for not knowing how to fish when they cannot even get the supplies to make a pole and say they don't deserve a fish... I cannot be the only one who notices this.
Or we have dopey vegans who claim fish are sentient and can feel pain and should have rights and we shouldn’t be allowed to eat them. There is insanity everywhere.
Or we have dopey vegans who claim fish are sentient and can feel pain and should have rights and we shouldn’t be allowed to eat them. There is insanity everywhere.
I keep seeing people both on the conservative side of the spectrum and the middle complain that Universal Basic Income (UBI) would not work out. The fact is I see it works out far better than the unemployment stimulus. Unemployment has a large backlog in many states especially for those that submitted at the begining of the shutdowns. Then you have the various donut holes of unemployment. Also unemployment has three more months of federal funding and some states are running dry.
What is your reason why you do or do not like UBI? If not, how do you fix unemployment?
Look at Greece's version of UBI.......How did that work out?
I've never collected ONE dollar in unemployment/public assistance. I did not get the stimulus check last month. I think unemployment can help some people short term but if you are generations deep in the system then it obviously doesn't work. I think unemployment needs to be temporary, 90-120 days max benefit and limits in a 5 or 10 year period.
In my state the max benefit is $275 a week. I honestly couldn't be bothered for $1100 a month and would be able to secure employment faster than figuring out the system of unemployment!
If your job is "public assistance/unemployment" then you need to be fired.
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