Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-11-2020, 05:04 AM
 
17,310 posts, read 22,046,867 times
Reputation: 29658

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Right out of those old manuals they gave newlyweds in 1940. But you and I both know you are just digging down on the holier than though viewpoint because you can. Bottom line, every DAY 109 people (out of 166) in perfect health take their own lives. None of them did it because they were flush with savings. I have already separated out the lovesick teenagers and the old people with cancer. The 109 are the DESPAIR suicides because the American Dream is a crock of ****e and you and I both know it, so just can it.



Everytime there is a crisis the wealth class uses it as an opportunity to stuff more of the Middle Classes tax revenue into their own pockets. While they distracted us with $1200 (one time) bonuses for surviving (this long) they were putting Trillions (again, they did it in 2008) into their own pockets. And 500 billionaires the least of which is making about $13M/hr. don't even pay any taxes on that wealth.



The average worker is in a NEGATIVE cash flow situation. The cost of rent, food, clothes (basic) and a cell phone (yes, dammit, you NEED a cell phone so your boss can call you and tell you what time to clock in) are more than what you can expect to earn in too many cases. What you are saying in so many words is that 40 Million Americans are stupid. I don't believe that that many people can be so utterly stupid that they don't see the wisdom of saving 20% of gross receipts.



Americans used to save. There used to be institutions called 'Savings and Loans'. Passbook interest rates were in the high teens. Money Market and Certificate of Deposit accounts hit 30%. That's how my parents became millionaires. That's how LOTS of post depression parents became millionaires. Maybe that's how YOU became a millionaire. You saved, and your savings earned INTEREST, what a concept. Without that secret sauce you got nothing. Boomers just missed that gravy train, and it was long out of the station when Millenials came along. You are doubling down on OBSOLETE information. Kindly cease and desist.



We are about to enter the age of negative interest rates. You will PAY to save unless you do your saving in a mattress. Even then you will pay to save because inflation will knobble your savings at 5%/yr. Are you done yet? Because I have more if you aren't.

Wow that post is all over the place.

CD's never hit 30% in America: Highest on record was 16.691 % in October 1981

No Billionaire is making 13mm an hour. Jeff Bezos is the richest American (114B) and he only makes in the most, earning a whopping $4,474,885 an hour.

I'd say if you can't make something of yourself in America then you are a doomed loser. It is clearly the land of opportunity and millions of successful people can prove it.

Need inspiration? Watch a show like Shark Tank, you will see people trying to turn their dream into something big.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-11-2020, 06:14 AM
 
17,401 posts, read 11,975,567 times
Reputation: 16155
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
How in the blue Hell can you afford to save 2 years of saved income when you barely afford at one year? Get off your high horse boostrapper. Saving 20% of your income mind you would take 10 years to be safe... FYI, health insurance isn't the be all end all to avoid medical bills, even HSAs.
I can almost guarantee that the folks complaining that they can't afford to save are also the ones that eat out all the time, drive expensive cars, take extravagant vacations, and have the latest gadgets.

Bootstrapper, Boomer. Those are just names called by people that want to make excuses for their overextended lives.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2020, 06:29 AM
 
17,401 posts, read 11,975,567 times
Reputation: 16155
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The problem I see often, is we don't teach people to fish but instead we rather yell at those that can't fish and browbeat them for not knowing how to fish when they cannot even get the supplies to make a pole and say they don't deserve a fish... I cannot be the only one who notices this.
Using your analogy, we don't browbeat those that can't fish (the truly disabled), but rather the ones that won't fish (the lazy, entitled able-bodied).

You say you graduated in 2012, but it took you 3 years to find a good job? Something wrong there, no matter the economy.

To continue your analogy, we DID teach you how to fish (you got an education), and were given the supplies (a degree). Not saying you don't deserve to fish. We're saying you need to grab the pole and fish YOURSELF. Don't sit next to someone else that is using those tools to catch fish, then steal what they've caught out of their bucket.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2020, 06:44 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,975,811 times
Reputation: 43666
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The problem I see often, is we don't teach people to fish ...
Who is this 'we' you refer to?

In my world learning the basics of fishing is something that happens as a child at home.
The same is true of any number of the other basic life skills so many claim they don't understand.

If YOUR world didn't include this ... look right across the family dinner table to place blame.
That sort of blame is largely due for the mere existence of the far too many who can't do for themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2020, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,897,671 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Who is this 'we' you refer to?

In my world learning the basics of fishing is something that happens as a child at home.
The same is true of any number of the other basic life skills so many claim they don't understand.

If YOUR world didn't include this ... look right across the family dinner table to place blame.
That sort of blame is largely due for the mere existence of the far too many who can't do for themselves.
It isn't just parents though. This includes educators and youth leaders too. There are more role models that effect life than parents. Often times these figures do more than their parents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2020, 08:19 AM
 
6,720 posts, read 8,390,617 times
Reputation: 10409
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
It isn't just parents though. This includes educators and youth leaders too. There are more role models that effect life than parents. Often times these figures do more than their parents.
The biggest influence on a child’s life is their home environment. Period. It takes a great will of effort from a child to break from the mold their family has made.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2020, 08:19 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,041,348 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
It isn't just parents though. This includes educators and youth leaders too. There are more role models that effect life than parents. Often times these figures do more than their parents.
And in today’s collectivist educational system, the ideas of hatred for capitalism, individual rights, private property rights, and individual responsibility are very strong. So it’s little wonder that you see lobotomized automatons coming out of today’s high schools and colleges and supporting a twit like AOC or Bernie Sanders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2020, 08:43 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,975,811 times
Reputation: 43666
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
It isn't just parents though.
No it isn't.
But they are the common denominator in every instance.

It's also the politicians and preachers who have made and continue to make sex education,
contraception and abortion services difficult and costly while gleefully welcoming the surplus
we currently have imposing this (~1M person) burden to support on others.

Unless/Until the welfare systems these people need (retitled UBI or not) are done so
including measures designed to eliminate their future need I'll continue to oppose them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2020, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,931,928 times
Reputation: 10028
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
I'd say if you can't make something of yourself in America then you are a doomed loser. It is clearly the land of opportunity and millions of successful people can prove it.

Need inspiration? Watch a show like Shark Tank, you will see people trying to turn their dream into something big.

In a country as big as America there are bound to be successful people. Not just millions. Tens of millions. And? What? We aren't talking about the successful. We are talking about the 'doomed losers'. All over the world people are talking about America's doomed losers. It has been noticed that most are not on drugs, do not follow ghetto culture, do in fact have some education. Things that in any other 1st World Country would have set them up for life.



You're the numbers guy. You tell me that it is acceptable the number of Americans living below a Middle Class Standard. And, yes, go ahead and record for posterity an assertion that it is, in fact, their fault and theirs alone. Shark Tank, that's your metric for American Success?



I hate to be the one to break it to you but this American worship of individual entrepreneurship as a mark of distinction is actually regarded by every other country on earth as a mark of shame! The countries on earth with the highest expressions of individual entrepreneurship are hellholes. Desperation forces people to do, sell, con ... whatever they must, in order to survive. It is NOT something to be proud of.



America is done because her people never learned to pull together. Everyone wants to go their own way. My co-workers all spend all their free time hatching their break-out entrepreneur ideas that will enable them to no longer have to work for someone else. Again, you are the numbers guy, tell us what percent succeed. Tell us that that is something to want to emulate. Elsewhere in the developed world, being paid fairly to work for someone else, who manages the company well, allows everyone to prosper. Earlier someone said that it wasn't that big a deal that between 120+ and 160+ Americans kill themselves daily. Tells you all you need to know about this country's chances in the longer term.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2020, 11:08 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,041,348 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
In a country as big as America there are bound to be successful people. Not just millions. Tens of millions. And? What? We aren't talking about the successful. We are talking about the 'doomed losers'. All over the world people are talking about America's doomed losers. It has been noticed that most are not on drugs, do not follow ghetto culture, do in fact have some education. Things that in any other 1st World Country would have set them up for life.



You're the numbers guy. You tell me that it is acceptable the number of Americans living below a Middle Class Standard. And, yes, go ahead and record for posterity an assertion that it is, in fact, their fault and theirs alone. Shark Tank, that's your metric for American Success?



I hate to be the one to break it to you but this American worship of individual entrepreneurship as a mark of distinction is actually regarded by every other country on earth as a mark of shame! The countries on earth with the highest expressions of individual entrepreneurship are hellholes. Desperation forces people to do, sell, con ... whatever they must, in order to survive. It is NOT something to be proud of.



America is done because her people never learned to pull together. Everyone wants to go their own way. My co-workers all spend all their free time hatching their break-out entrepreneur ideas that will enable them to no longer have to work for someone else. Again, you are the numbers guy, tell us what percent succeed. Tell us that that is something to want to emulate. Elsewhere in the developed world, being paid fairly to work for someone else, who manages the company well, allows everyone to prosper. Earlier someone said that it wasn't that big a deal that between 120+ and 160+ Americans kill themselves daily. Tells you all you need to know about this country's chances in the longer term.
Pulling together is overrated. You get a short time to live in the cosmos and you should not live it as a little cog in a socialist wheel. You should be creating and living your work life as an expression of your passion. The goal is to say: “Wow, I get paid to do this, and yet it’s something that’s fun to do. Fantastic!” Entrepreneurship is what makes the world go round. And in America, anyone can start a business. Working for yourself and running your own business is a higher and better use of your life than being a worker bee in a colony. You are still free to do that, but you are not limited to that in a free capitalistic society. Eff happy Denmark and other “paradises”. Those are places you go to die. America is where you go to live. To build. To enjoy. To prosper. To excel. To RISK!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top