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This is post is just one more wedge post that tries to convince people that democrats oppose the police and want them defunded. That is not true.
If you paid any attention to what is going on nationally, Joe Biden doesn't want to defund the police. Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to defund the police. Chuck Schumer doesn't want to defund the police. Only a few real nuts want to do that.
What most responsible people want is more accountability. Why do choke holds continue to be used? Why do so many minority people who are unarmed continue to end up dead in altercations with the police? Even though body cams are in use, why does much footage of events still seem to be missing?
Because they are effective at controlling a combative subject, who would hurt or disarm the arresting officer if they were capable? Have you ever been in a knock-down, drag-out fight? It's HARD to control a person physically, especially if they are younger, stronger, or better trained than you are, or worse, drugged-out such that they don't feel pain (hello, Rodney King). And that's what the cops are there to do, unfortunately, they have to restrain people who are trying to fight them or get away from them. Unless you are willing to have cops work in five-man teams equipped with nets and tasers, you are going to have one-on-one, hand-to-hand physical confrontations involving police. And personally, I don't want cops getting their teeth knocked out because they have to "fight fair", any more than I want suspects being choked out. But to be honest, if you want to stop almost all physical "fights" between cops and arrestees, equip all cops with teams and beanbag shotguns, I'd be down with that - a high velocity beanbag to the quadricep takes the fight out of just about everyone. But I doubt most people would be OK with that, either.
Because they are effective at controlling a combative subject, who would hurt or disarm the arresting officer if they were capable? Have you ever been in a knock-down, drag-out fight? It's HARD to control a person physically, especially if they are younger, stronger, or better trained than you are, or worse, drugged-out such that they don't feel pain (hello, Rodney King). And that's what the cops are there to do, unfortunately, they have to restrain people who are trying to fight them or get away from them. Unless you are willing to have cops work in five-man teams equipped with nets and tasers, you are going to have one-on-one, hand-to-hand physical confrontations involving police. And personally, I don't want cops getting their teeth knocked out because they have to "fight fair", any more than I want suspects being choked out. But to be honest, if you want to stop almost all physical "fights" between cops and arrestees, equip all cops with teams and beanbag shotguns, I'd be down with that - a high velocity beanbag to the quadricep takes the fight out of just about everyone. But I doubt most people would be OK with that, either.
What good would having five cops do that four couldn't, especially with one just standing around occasionally checking his phone? Having a beanbag gun handy wouldn't be any more effective at controlling a subject than having hobbles available if the cop in charge chooses not to use them. And why was that cop in charge?
Why were the two cops on the street less than a week working together, especially when the senior guy was supposed to be the training officer for at least one of them?
What kind of screening or schooling does a cop in Minneapolis have to go through to be a training officer? Why wasn't that guy at least a sergeant after almost twenty years? Couldn't pass the test? Too much ugly stuff in his file? Good reasons not to put him in a position to pass on his policing wisdom, like not rolling a dying man on his side so he might get a breath.
Where was the supervisor? Did anybody call him; we know at least one guy was phone-oriented? Is there any indication a chain of command and chain of responsibility even exists within that department? Why nothing but silence about that even now? The city council has voted to disband that department; I don't know how they're going to do it but I can't really blame them for trying.
Nancy Pelosi took a knee the other day along with her fellow Dems but do you think for a minute that if she saw a young black man walking around her neighborhood that she wouldn't call the Police?
Not everyone's from lily-white, monolithic Cape Cod. She grew up in Baltimore and lives within the city limits of San Francisco, a very diverse city. She probably has seen that for a long time. What a ridiculous thing to say.
What good would having five cops do that four couldn't, especially with one just standing around occasionally checking his phone? Having a beanbag gun handy wouldn't be any more effective at controlling a subject than having hobbles available if the cop in charge chooses not to use them. And why was that cop in charge?
Why were the two cops on the street less than a week working together, especially when the senior guy was supposed to be the training officer for at least one of them?
What kind of screening or schooling does a cop in Minneapolis have to go through to be a training officer? Why wasn't that guy at least a sergeant after almost twenty years? Couldn't pass the test? Too much ugly stuff in his file? Good reasons not to put him in a position to pass on his policing wisdom, like not rolling a dying man on his side so he might get a breath.
Where was the supervisor? Did anybody call him; we know at least one guy was phone-oriented? Is there any indication a chain of command and chain of responsibility even exists within that department? Why nothing but silence about that even now? The city council has voted to disband that department; I don't know how they're going to do it but I can't really blame them for trying.
If you're counting on me to identify all the problems with the Minneapolis PD in general, and list why the officers did what they did during the Floyd arrest in particular, you need to go get a sandwich, you're going to be waiting for quite a while. Bottom line, if the Floyd arrest is indicative of how they do business on a daily basis, they've got more problems than criticism from you or I. Obviously, an officer's response needs to be "reasonable and escalated as needed based on the level of resistance of the detainee", so my buddy (an ex cop) was the first to agree that their conduct was unnecessary based on the widely-seen video. If there was a video showing a handcuffed Floyd beating the heck out of the cops before the one we saw, I would expect it would have been released by now. Personally, I'd love to hear a response on this from a member of the Minneapolis PD, but I think I'd have to go with you for that sandwich while waiting for that.
But the question I responded to asked, "Why are chokeholds allowed?" and my answer to this was probably correct - basically, "The same reason they are used in MMA". I sure do wish folks would stop thinking they have the right to fight the police as much as I wish the cops would stop punishing people who choose to fight them.
If you're counting on me to identify all the problems with the Minneapolis PD in general, and list why the officers did what they did during the Floyd arrest in particular, you need to go get a sandwich, you're going to be waiting for quite a while. Bottom line, if the Floyd arrest is indicative of how they do business on a daily basis, they've got more problems than criticism from you or I. Obviously, an officer's response needs to be "reasonable and escalated as needed based on the level of resistance of the detainee", so my buddy (an ex cop) was the first to agree that their conduct was unnecessary based on the widely-seen video. If there was a video showing a handcuffed Floyd beating the heck out of the cops before the one we saw, I would expect it would have been released by now. Personally, I'd love to hear a response on this from a member of the Minneapolis PD, but I think I'd have to go with you for that sandwich while waiting for that.
But the question I responded to asked, "Why are chokeholds allowed?" and my answer to this was probably correct - basically, "The same reason they are used in MMA". I sure do wish folks would stop thinking they have the right to fight the police as much as I wish the cops would stop punishing people who choose to fight them.
Actually other than as references to your five cops and a beanbag gun my questions were mostly rhetorical. But they are questions that needed to be asked and it's quite surprising that we haven't seen them asked in any serious medium.
Maybe it's just too soon to expect what should be an in depth investigation and I'm sure that those in charge in Minneapolis would rather be too busy now than to have to answer them. I have friends who have been beat cops and detectives and others who have been NYPD Inspectors and State Police Majors and these are the type questions they would be asking.
And in response to your chokehold question, the answer more and more is "they aren't" but if a guy is going to ignore the regulation on removing a chokehold when the subject is under control and continue to kneel on the neck of an unconscious man and continue to kneel on the neck of a dead man even as an EMT attempts to find a pulse, what difference does a regulation make?
What do you think would happen if the election were held next week? Personally, I think it would be a Republican landslide. The majority of people in the country are not out there marching, but almost everyone saw the cities burning on the telly, and most want nothing to do with that "lifestyle". I myself cannot WAIT to move at least a hundred miles from where I live now (Chicago suburbs). Not only do I want nothing to do anymore with Democratic leadership, I no longer want to live anywhere near Democratic VOTERS.
I feel exactly the same way about the new Republican party. I never had issues with either side before Trump. NEVER. I disagreed with both sides on some things and leaned more left because I still, and I know this is crazy for most Republicans that I've met, I believe that women should have the only say in what happens to their body, but that's a discussion for another thread.
However, whatever that side has morphed into? I don't think of them as Republicans...they are the most anti-American people I've ever seen. I can't WAIT to move out of a red state and into a place where people actually care about other people (that's right, I mean ALL people). The conditions one places on so many people and the characteristics they try to place on people who are just despicable. I don't know what's happened to our country, but I don't recognize it.
I don't understand people aren't understanding when leaders say, hey, we think the bad cops need to be held accountable. We think they shouldn't have an unwavering budget while other important programs get less funding. I do think cops need to have behavioral and other tests to determine their need for power and how much that plays into their actions. I absolutely abhor the fact that people who call themselves Christian say, well, maybe we won't help all the people, we'll just help the ones that look like us.
I've gotten into conversations with family members who think like you - and most of the time I think, we have very similar ideas about family, education, peace etc., but it's astonishing to me that they still hang on to whatever someone on the news told them: you Dems are "fill in the nasty blank", you Dems want to get rid of all the police - on and on it goes. Do you hear how nuts that is? Did the majority say get rid of police or are the majority saying, hey, maybe things aren't working out so good right now - let's change some things. And btw, it's comical you think the majority of cops are good. They may do their job without incident most days, but that does not make them "good".
Additionally, policing is a profession NOT A RACE. If I hear Blue Lives Matter, usually after Blue has killed Black, I'm going to scream. Can we not see the message? Are we really so blind we can't see it? It's raw and out there and in everyone's face. Can you see it? I suggest that if all you see right now is hate, then you're not looking at it right. If all you can see is a big fuss about nothing but loss of property, then you're not looking at it right. If you're angry that Black Lives Matter, then the point is completely lost on you.
Okay, cool! If you want the police defunded and/or abolished, you same folks better better start loving the 2nd Amendment and retract all your gun control sentiments. Because if you think for one second that crime isn't going to spike, you're delusional! In fact, I almost want cops to take 2-3 months off from any sort of patrol, just to prove a point. These people who are--almost all liberal--who want to defund the police are also anti-gun, anti second amendment and have no clue about self defense, have no relationship with violence (unless they're cowardly ANTIFA type leftist) and rather let their families get ravaged before they lift a pinky to defend them out of "being a good person". They're much more concerned about feeling good instead of doing good but I digress.
Don't get me wrong, I don't love cops, I have my gripes with police and I have had 2 not-so-good experiences with cops. Overwhelmingly however, my experiences with cops have been good and in fact, one (WHITE) cop actually saved my ass twice. To give a quick back story: I lived in the ghetto as a teen and I was caught with a military combat knife, TWICE. This particular cop knew me from a little rapport we had, after he came to my aid when I was jumped by a bandit of thugs. I never called the cops but by the grace of the universe, him and his partners were near by. We bumped into each other a few times and he genuinely seemed to care since he knew I was hard working and stood out of trouble. Anyway, he bailed me out of central booking, no charges or records. He knew I was a good kid who was just DEFENDING myself from the hoodlums.
I've also had a really crappy experience with an (Indian) cop who was just having a bad day. I don't know if the curry and lassi (I'm "cultured") made his farts smell really bad but whatever the case was, he had it in for me. I didn't give him attitude, any lip, wasn't rude, called him officer but he was just looking to ram his nightstick up my arse.
Needless to say, I know there's good and bad cops. I would even agree that there needs to be some serious cop reform in their training and their criteria to be a cop. There's no reason why there should be fat, out of shape cops, no reason. Unless they plan on rolling down a hill and catch criminals like a bowling ball getting a strike at a bowling alley, there shouldn't be any FAT, out of shape cops. I digress but there needs to be better and higher criteria to be a cop. Perhaps a fitness test every 2 months and psychological evaluation, training on having rapport with people in the communities. So I definitely am on board with that.
However, defunding and abolishing the police? HAHA! What a mess. Watch more militias form, watch more communities patrol form. If you think pink haired, pot bellied, trans-mutation SJW's are going to help you......GOOD LUCK!!! Who are you going to call? It ain't Ghost Busters! AHAHAHA!!
White people in the all white nation can fund their police privately and police their own people, kind of like Japan. If only this could have been thought of earlier, white people in the US and UK would have no race conflicts, ever.
I feel exactly the same way about the new Republican party. I never had issues with either side before Trump. NEVER. I disagreed with both sides on some things and leaned more left because I still, and I know this is crazy for most Republicans that I've met, I believe that women should have the only say in what happens to their body, but that's a discussion for another thread.
However, whatever that side has morphed into? I don't think of them as Republicans...they are the most anti-American people I've ever seen. I can't WAIT to move out of a red state and into a place where people actually care about other people (that's right, I mean ALL people). The conditions one places on so many people and the characteristics they try to place on people who are just despicable. I don't know what's happened to our country, but I don't recognize it.
I don't understand people aren't understanding when leaders say, hey, we think the bad cops need to be held accountable. We think they shouldn't have an unwavering budget while other important programs get less funding. I do think cops need to have behavioral and other tests to determine their need for power and how much that plays into their actions. I absolutely abhor the fact that people who call themselves Christian say, well, maybe we won't help all the people, we'll just help the ones that look like us.
I've gotten into conversations with family members who think like you - and most of the time I think, we have very similar ideas about family, education, peace etc., but it's astonishing to me that they still hang on to whatever someone on the news told them: you Dems are "fill in the nasty blank", you Dems want to get rid of all the police - on and on it goes. Do you hear how nuts that is? Did the majority say get rid of police or are the majority saying, hey, maybe things aren't working out so good right now - let's change some things. And btw, it's comical you think the majority of cops are good. They may do their job without incident most days, but that does not make them "good".
Additionally, policing is a profession NOT A RACE. If I hear Blue Lives Matter, usually after Blue has killed Black, I'm going to scream. Can we not see the message? Are we really so blind we can't see it? It's raw and out there and in everyone's face. Can you see it? I suggest that if all you see right now is hate, then you're not looking at it right. If all you can see is a big fuss about nothing but loss of property, then you're not looking at it right. If you're angry that Black Lives Matter, then the point is completely lost on you.
Blue lives is white on one side, black on the other. No real unity after going home at night. Blacks and whites working within the ranks do not get along because of race issues. Most whites feel that every black at work doesn’t really belong there and took the job from a white, and most blacks simply do not have much in common with whites when it comes to daily life and experiences. It was that way long before affirmative action. It was actually that way during slavery. Whites have always felt that they could pick those crops better, they just didn’t want to.
Blacks and whites working and living together in every situation are going to have problems over race. Race is the biggest problem we have in this earth and will continue getting worse until we admit being two separate cultures without a chance of either folding to the other.
Because they are effective at controlling a combative subject, who would hurt or disarm the arresting officer if they were capable? Have you ever been in a knock-down, drag-out fight? It's HARD to control a person physically, especially if they are younger, stronger, or better trained than you are, or worse, drugged-out such that they don't feel pain (hello, Rodney King). And that's what the cops are there to do, unfortunately, they have to restrain people who are trying to fight them or get away from them. Unless you are willing to have cops work in five-man teams equipped with nets and tasers, you are going to have one-on-one, hand-to-hand physical confrontations involving police. And personally, I don't want cops getting their teeth knocked out because they have to "fight fair", any more than I want suspects being choked out. But to be honest, if you want to stop almost all physical "fights" between cops and arrestees, equip all cops with teams and beanbag shotguns, I'd be down with that - a high velocity beanbag to the quadricep takes the fight out of just about everyone. But I doubt most people would be OK with that, either.
Officer Lane, one of the officers with Chauvin, had put in his report that once Floyd was handcuffed, he was compliant and sitting on the curb. So Floyd wasn't a threat to anyone at the point that Chauvin shoved his foot into Floyd's neck.
It's come out, in the last day or so, that Chauvin and Floyd had previously worked together doing security for a bar, and there was some bad blood between the 2 of them.
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