Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's where you have to say cops are lowering themselves to the level of those they are policing rather than rising above and DE-escalating. Get rid of the prideful macho side of policing and figure out what is really needed in a situation. I don't want to pay a cop for getting even with a mouthy offender who is already cuffed. The cops basically wanting suspects to grovel and say "uncle" is disgusting to me - I expect a lot more from LEO.
I almost wonder if the machismo aspect is what some people are reacting to in the discussion about changing law enforcement. To them, the police are badasses with guns and fast cars and the idea that they'd react first with kindness or psychology diminishes the macho cop fantasy.
Stanford did a study of body cam footage and found police officers were less polite and respectful to black people. Even for the same type of traffic stop. I do not find this surprising at all, while I have had very limited interactions with police, I have seen this play out in some cases in conversations between me and other people.
Defund the police is about reducing the things the police are called for.
Listen, no one is happy when the police show up, when they are not happy they act in a manner that makes the police not happy...
So, there are a BUNCH of things police are called for that can be bumped to social services.
Police do not need to be chasing runaways, truancy cases, or even things like rape. Those types of things can be done by others, who can also address the social and societal issues for those individuals.
It would make the perps/victims happier AND the police happier. It would reduce training the police need. Right now they have to play psychologist, martial arts expert, sociologist, marksman... etc.
Think about it.
If I come home from vacation and find my house had been broken into, I don't need someone with a gun, and combat training, I need an investigator.
If I am home and someone breaks into my house, I need someone with a gun and combat training.
Edited to add: Just found out that my scenario above ^. Some localities already do that.
__________________ ____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs / Pets / Current Events
Stanford did a study of body cam footage and found police officers were less polite and respectful to black people. Even for the same type of traffic stop. I do not find this surprising at all, while I have had very limited interactions with police, I have seen this play out in some cases in conversations between me and other people.
Police siege mentality: The rationale that supports a paramilitary stance as the norm among the nations Police forces. In that environment of police fear and loathing, it's become a bit more difficult to think of the police living up to their task to--"protect and serve." The fact of police brutality has a long and sordid history here in America. The police have been utilized to beat down labor rights organizers, civil rights protesters, forced to keep order in the nations ghettos, patrolling the poor sections of the cities much like the occupying army, holding down the vanquished enemy.
All of that activity flies in the face of the official posture of the police as our friend's and neighbors. Just the fact that we have these large and violent prone areas in our cities should be a first clue as to the why's of police alienation from those they are supposed to protect. The ghettos are, and always were, the unofficial "combat zones" from the perspective of police work. While the rest of us find ways around these areas and never go there, the police are there, and not just bystanders, but moreover interfering with the crime enterprises run by the ghetto denizens who terrorize the locals as well as the police.
I'd suggest that we, the American citizens who supposedly rule the government, petition said government to abolish these ghettos and bring those areas up to the same infrastructure levels as the more affluent areas. Abolish the notion that police can and will keep down the simmering anger of those who live there amid a disproportionate dire poverty, and high crime rates.
Defund the paramilitary aspects of inner city policing, allocate more resources to the goal of improving the community's schools, housing, and fledgling businesses. It isn't difficult to understand the idea that we can no longer refuse to see the glaring differences between the lives of poor people and those who live in an affluent lifestyle. Poverty and crime are constant companions and the police are caught in between that relationship. We, the citizens can no longer allow the police to work in these areas with the expectation that they will remain in good mental health, the police don't make the ghettos, but our reluctance to become an opposing voice certainly does create the conditions we expect the police to deal with. I've provided an article from 1991 just to demonstrate the fact that our social problems haven't been our national priority..
Defund the police is about reducing the things the police are called for.
Listen, no one is happy when the police show up, when they are not happy they act in a manner that makes the police not happy...
So, there are a BUNCH of things police are called for that can be bumped to social services.
Police do not need to be chasing runaways, truancy cases, or even things like rape. Those types of things can be done by others, who can also address the social and societal issues for those individuals.
It would make the perps/victims happier AND the police happier. It would reduce training the police need. Right now they have to play psychologist, martial arts expert, sociologist, marksman... etc.
Think about it.
If I come home from vacation and find my house had been broken into, I don't need someone with a gun, and combat training, I need an investigator.
If I am home and someone breaks into my house, I need someone with a gun and combat training.
Edited to add: Just found out that my scenario above ^. Some localities already do that.
In general I agree with you. Although with rape...I would say that is a police matter for sure.
In general I agree with you. Although with rape...I would say that is a police matter for sure.
If you think about what the standard training of police (could) be, firearms, hand-to-hand, etc. none of those things are needed at the time a rape is reported. In Hawaii, if a victim tells the officer "I was raped", they have to stop talking to that person until a trained Detective arrives, then there is all the lab tests and counselors brought in.
If you just had those people arrive first, sans Detective, in place would be like CSI types. For apprehension, you would definitely require the police.
I'm just speculating on things, of course studies would need to be done and all that, but it IS feasible, and could be a win/win for officers and the public.
I think it is certainly worth looking into.
__________________ ____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs / Pets / Current Events
but it IS feasible, and could be a win/win for officers and the public.
I think it is certainly worth looking into.
I agree. I never thought about it in the past and it seems like a good idea.
Plus, perhaps another organization would be able to get the rape kits off backlog and tested so the current message to victims could be changed: http://www.endthebacklog.org/ My state of NC has the highest number of untested kits at 15,160.
Last edited by crusinsusan; 06-12-2020 at 02:06 PM..
... It isn't difficult to understand the idea that we can no longer refuse to see the glaring differences between the lives of poor people and those who live in an affluent lifestyle.
So your point is... that life is better to be affluent?
And here I thought the topic was about rogue police officers enabled by partial immunity killing/beating citizens with impunity coupled & Police Union protections preventing the culling of chronic bad actors...
Last edited by RationalExpectations; 06-12-2020 at 02:21 PM..
If you think about what the standard training of police (could) be, firearms, hand-to-hand, etc. none of those things are needed at the time a rape is reported. In Hawaii, if a victim tells the officer "I was raped", they have to stop talking to that person until a trained Detective arrives, then there is all the lab tests and counselors brought in.
If you just had those people arrive first, sans Detective, in place would be like CSI types. For apprehension, you would definitely require the police.
I'm just speculating on things, of course studies would need to be done and all that, but it IS feasible, and could be a win/win for officers and the public.
I think it is certainly worth looking into.
yes! Me too. Like in the rape example, it is rare that police are called in for an active rape situation, it is after it happened. So having someone who is sensitive and well trained to investigate sexual assaults and can be empathetic towards the victim should be a higher priority than someone who can tackle them in that situation. Very few police calls actually need someone to use lethal force, so we should plan and staff accordingly
I saw an article about the owner of the store where the police were called on George Floyd. The owner said, paraphrasing "I wish I was there, I could have saved George's life. The staffer who called was a newbie. George was a regular in my store, I am sure it was a simple misunderstanding. We could have resolved this without police. From now on I am training my staff on how we can resolve this sort of incident internally instead of escalating to the police unnecessarily."
And I think this sums up perfectly exactly what needs to happen. We need to have the responder have context and empathy, not just force as tools in the toolkit.
I agree. I never thought about it in the past and it seems like a good idea.
Plus, perhaps another organization would be able to get the rape kits off backlog and tested so the current message to victims could be changed: http://www.endthebacklog.org/ My state of NC has the highest number of untested kits at 15,160.
Me too. My first knee jerk reaction was "WTH? I don't want to defund the police." My husband schooled me. It makes so much sense, I'm not sure why it hasn't been discussed more (DH says Bill Maher is a huge proponent for a long time, but his "solution" goes much further, and I don't think it would be good).
__________________ ____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs / Pets / Current Events
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
