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Sorry ORocks, I'm not going anywhere, and I'm not the one cutting family members, so why would anyone be afraid of me?
I had to spread the love but wanted to let you know you gave me a good laugh. Apparently though, someone is afraid of you....someone who wants to keep their family away from....gasp!....different ideas that could possibly challenge his supreme authority over his family. (Me thinks someone has got to put the beer down and back up s...l...o...w...l...y from the computer. But stay away from the TV! They're showing that Waco, Texas documentary thing again.....)
Chastity and preservation of virginity are the most common motivations for the performance of female circumcision. It is believed that by performing the operation in its mild form the sexual desire of the girl is decreased thus hindering the chances of sexual promiscuity. In its more severe forms, as in stitching the vaginal orifice, which occurs in some African communities, the girl is physically prevented from being approached sexually. The importance of maintaining virginity is utmost as the girl is meant to be approached only by her future husband and some think that female circumcision is one of the ways to ensure her virginity for that moment.
Tradition: the acceptable image of a woman with a place in society is that of one who is circumcised among other various characteristics. The fear of losing the psychological, moral, and material benefits of "belonging" is one of the greatest motivators of conformity. The notion of sexual victimization through performance of the operation is not felt while women and girls remain firmly within their own culture. However, unmarried girls who move into European circles are beginning to be conscious of it. It is difficult to assess the psychological damage of a tradition that is so universally accepted.
Hygienic motivations: It is believed that the secretions produced by the glands in the labia minora and majora are foul smelling, unhygienic and so make the female body unclean. However, in noncircumcised women, it is very easy to clean the external genitalia. It is only in the rare cases where there is a stricture of the prepuce of the clitoris (phimosis) or elongation of the prepuce (foreskin) that is difficult to clean; in such cases a properly done surgical circumcision without encroaching on the clitoris may be required.
Male approval: the argument that circumcision enhances male sexual performance is only valid where males have been conditioned to believe that sexual pleasure and prowess can only be achieved with circumcised women who are subdued and passive during the act itself.
Mystical and ritualistic factors: the circumcision ceremony (in many countries) includes many superstitious performances depending on the country of origin ranging from the time of day in which it is performed to wearing protective necklaces.
Education versus ignorance: statistics have proven that a strong relationship exists between the type circumcision chosen and the parents' education. Daughters of highly educated parents are commonly either not circumcised at all, or if circumcised, the 3rd degree or the intermediate type is chosen in preference to the 4th degree.
Financial motivation: the cost of the operation is beneficial to certain people who perform the operation such as traditional birth attendants and some qualified doctors who perform the operation.
Other reasons: some believe that female circumcision is one of the rites that allow passage of a girl from childhood to femininity. External genitalia are considered ugly and become more beautiful after circumcision.
I'm glad that flik_becky reminded me of this post. Sorry to interrupt the petty back and forth ganging up here, but I'm honestly shocked that no one emphasized this. Last I checked, considering that doctors in the U.S.A. perform circumcisions with the various intents that have been beaten to death in this thread, none of them were performed with the intent of creating a chastity belt, and I highly doubt that the result of all of them means this sort of situation where the adult circumcised woman cannot physically give birth:
And people are honestly trying to pass this off as the same thing?
Last I checked, with VERY few exceptions, circumcised men enjoy their sex lives, can reproduce effectively, and in my experience, vastly enjoy their uncircumcised selves. I haven't heard from anyone here who was cut at a later date (let's say 25ish, give the guy a chance at plenty of sex / hygeine issues / whatever) to give an opinion on what he preferred. I know when I brought the topic up to my husband last night, he laughed, insisted he was more than fine with his circumcised state, and was extremely glad that it was done as a baby, because he doesn't remember it. One guy's opinion, which I'm sure the zealots here will discount, and try to counter with a bunch of links that I am sure I will not be opening on my work PC for obvious reasons. I doubt I would find many men who would want to be completely abstinant for six weeks in order to get the surgery done.
Guess what people? You can find links from "experts" supporting almost any position you choose to make your own on the internet. I fail to see why various links of botched circumcisions are so much more relevant than actual people here stating their babys' (non)reaction to the procedure. Can things screw up? Yes, though I haven't seen statistics here (how amazing) on how often, or how the botch was dealt with - though I am sure someone can find some radical link that shows their point of view perfectly. However, last I checked, my RIGHTS as a future parent are such that allow me and my husband to make this choice for our family. We may or may not choose to exercise these rights, end of story. I was truly hoping that this thread would encourage thoughtful debate, but aside from some parents claiming that their sons got through the procedure without a fuss, everything I read that has been anti-circ has been extremist and horribly angry, and biased. To me, it's like the PETA approach: I love animals, but throw paint on my leather jacket and you will be immedietely tuned out.
Why do you personally find genital mutilation unacceptable for females but acceptable for males? When I ask this question, I part for part comparision.....just the hood vs the foreskin, not other procedures on other parts of female genitalia. Why do you believe that removing the hood of the female is a heinous act but find it and acceptable act for males?
I know this question was not for me, but I thought I'd repeat something I said earlier. I do differentiate between male circumcision and clitoral hood removal. It's not routinely practiced in the U.S., where I live, and I don't know any women who have had it done. I have not heard of any American women who had it done and didn't mind it, as is typically the case with men here. I have read some articles about women who had it done, supposedly to increase their enjoyment of sex, who experienced significant to major scarring and pain. I haven't read of any women who had their clitoral hood removed in infancy, although I admit I haven't looked for such articles either.
I understand that other cultures do practice female genital cutting (FGC, or its previous term, FGM) in various degrees, and I imagine that many of those girls and women don't mind it--indeed, it's often the mother who performs the amputations. We Americans do not live in those cultures, and I do not relate to them. My understanding of FGC is that it's usually done to subjugate women, to deny them their sexuality, which is seen as dirty and perverse. The same can hardly be said about male circumcision, especially in the U.S.
I know this will hardly be a satisfying answer to you, and I am fairly certain you will argue with it, but the reason I am ambivalent at best about male circumcision is that it doesn't seem to be a big deal to most people in the U.S. Is it necessary? Not really. Is it barbaric? Hmm, maybe. Are the people who circumcize their sons perverted zealots? No. Does this mean that I must support female circumcision, at least to the extent that boys are circumcized? No, why should I? It's not practiced here, nor is there any kind of movement to begin doing that. As you and others have pointed out, male circumcision seems to be slowly going out of fashion here. I am content with that.
All I simply did was ask for you to defend your position and all you did was lash out violently. If you are this bad in a forum, I can't imagine what is would be like to be a child under your care. I shudder at the thought.
How many times, in one thread, does a "position" have to be explained and defended?
How many times before the anti-circumcision zealots get it?
Well, the answer is simple: You'll never get it, so explaining it YET AGAIN won't change anything.
And for your information, regarding your stupid snotty little comment about being a "child under my care"... All 3 of my kids are grown adults. They are fantastic, incredibly intelligent, very successful individuals. I have two absolutely beautiful, wonderful daughters-in-law - and all of us have a wonderful relationship. I have an excellent family. You?
I have succeeded in being an excellent parent. You have not. You don't need to worry about my penis, or anybody else's in my family. That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?
I know this will hardly be a satisfying answer to you, and I am fairly certain you will argue with it, but the reason I am ambivalent at best about male circumcision is that it doesn't seem to be a big deal to most people in the U.S. Is it necessary? Not really. Is it barbaric? Hmm, maybe. Are the people who circumcize their sons perverted zealots? No. Does this mean that I must support female circumcision, at least to the extent that boys are circumcized? No, why should I? It's not practiced here, nor is there any kind of movement to begin doing that. As you and others have pointed out, male circumcision seems to be slowly going out of fashion here. I am content with that.
You're right. Your answer will not satisfy the anti-circumcision taliban zealots. Nothing you say will even be heard.
They are anti-choice, anti-parental rights zealots. They want to control everything you as a parent can or cannot do.
In short, they're closed-minded and crazy cranks who want to forcibly impose their will on everybody.
I had to spread the love but wanted to let you know you gave me a good laugh. Apparently though, someone is afraid of you....someone who wants to keep their family away from....gasp!....different ideas that could possibly challenge his supreme authority over his family. (Me thinks someone has got to put the beer down and back up s...l...o...w...l...y from the computer. But stay away from the TV! They're showing that Waco, Texas documentary thing again.....)
Actually, I'm not the least bit afraid of you, or any other crazy nut-job zealot of your ilk.
Your free to try to impose your will on every family in America. Go ahead and give it a shot. And guess what you're going to find? The overwhelming majority of parents are going to join me in telling you that you can kiss our big ole hairy butts.
I've succeeded marvelously in raising my children. You're just a childless loony who's out their trying to impose your will on everyone who isn't asking your opinion.
You're right. Your answer will not satisfy the anti-circumcision taliban zealots. Nothing you say will even be heard.
They are anti-choice, anti-parental rights zealots. They want to control everything you as a parent can or cannot do.
In short, they're closed-minded and crazy cranks who want to forcibly impose their will on everybody.
Well, I don't know that they want to control everything a parent can do. I understand that some people view circumcision as mutilation and are very opposed to it. Some of the rationale is reasonable--it's irreversible and not particularly necessary. It's obvious they find the practice to be outrageous, and I'm sure the apathetic response they have received must be frustrating.
Well, I don't know that they want to control everything a parent can do. I understand that some people view circumcision as mutilation and are very opposed to it. Some of the rationale is reasonable--it's irreversible and not particularly necessary. It's obvious they find the practice to be outrageous, and I'm sure the apathetic response they have received must be frustrating.
That's why I refer to them as zealots. And it doesn't require a lot of time reading their posts to realize that some of them are just plumb crazy. Saying female genital mutilation is the same as circumcising a baby boy is asinine, and making all the other hyperbolic comparisons is equally as ludicrous.
I continue to say that parents have the right to make that choice for their own children. They want to remove that choice.
Male genital mutilation ("circumcision") should be banned. Anyone who inflicts it on their male infants or little boys is guilty of a hate crime and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Doctors that perform this barbaric, cruel and unnecessary operation should be put in jail and fined heavily. They should never be allowed to practice medicine again.
That's why I refer to them as zealots. And it doesn't require a lot of time reading their posts to realize that some of them are just plumb crazy. Saying female genital mutilation is the same as circumcising a baby boy is asinine, and making all the other hyperbolic comparisons is equally as ludicrous.
I continue to say that parents have the right to make that choice for their own children. They want to remove that choice.
That is all.
Mutilation is mutilation. You have no right to mutilate your children for any reason whatsoever. You may be their parent but you do not own them. They are not your property and you may not inflict unnecessary harm on them while they are too young and too helpless to resist you.
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