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[/quote]I'm no mathematician but don't your figures mean the U.S has a murder rate that is 300% more than Denmark, 150% more than France, and 50% more than Finland? We do like to kill folks.[/quote]
That's true. But I think the point was if you believe the argument that guns are the cause of murders, then the murder rate should be a lot higher than in countries where citizens are not allowed to own guns. Our murder rate is higher than some countries, but lower than others.
Murder is still relatively rare in the US, and the rate has come down over the past 15 years. And if you're not a thug and don't hang out with them, your chances of being murdered are much lower than the statistics indicate.
REPLY: So, how is saying a country that once held dear to godly moral mandates considered 'political' ?! I lived thru the 1950's and have a very good comparison to make with todays current philosophies, attitudes, and entitle-itis ... and this country is much more morally degraded now than ever before in history due in most part to its people either not wanting God to be real (secular humanism) and-or not wanting to submit authority to God (egocentrisism and narcisism) . And im not saying that AMerica ever did experience total morality and civility .., only that it has experienced a very very sharp decline toward the behaviour of forest animals . Never before in U.S. History do we have a populus that either doesnt know basic right from wrong , or, could care less about it. And the OP's insights are very astute of him .
The period of the 1950s was more the exception than the rule. And lest you forget, even that time, which is seen as a golden age by many, had it's problems with blatant racism. Heck, for nearly the first 100 years of our history, slavery was legal, and women were considered men's property. All this, in a so-called "Christian" nation, as funamentalists like to refer to it. What a joke!
''what does god have to do with it? there are atheists who recycle, care about the environment, live sensibly, are good citizens etc. there are lots of god believing people who cause just as much or more problems. there are criminals who believe in god and the bible or some religion. please get a clue''
REPLY: Ive got a good clue from living the past 50 some years that when God and his biblical mandates are pushed aside for people to live by, a nation falters. A humanist nation cant stand because its based on self centered interests . Alleged 'atheists' can be moral and do virtuous things, but they cant justify living that way --- with moral relativism there is no difference between a Mother Theresa and a Hitler for its only ones opinion of whats noble and correct ; further, the tenet of no absolute moral laws opens the door wide for virtually anything being permissible which is EXACTLY the philosophy we see today running rampant with everyone doing what is 'right' in his/her own mind ; maximized pleasure seeking and complete freedom to abberant behavior is a demanded lifestyle and be damned with anything that comes against it. Even the Creator , for, who does he think he is telling me how to live . This is the Cosmic Battle that exists ; but the masses are too decieved to see the reality of it. One day, everything will come into very sharp focus for all to see. And soon for all.
'The period of the 1950s was more the exception than the rule. And lest you forget, even that time, which is seen as a golden age by many, had it's problems with blatant racism. Heck, for nearly the first 100 years of our history, slavery was legal, and women were considered men's property. All this, in a so-called "Christian" nation, as funamentalists like to refer to it. What a joke!'
REPLY: A common misconception you have in an attempt to be a critic of the Christian Faith. Jesus himself gave and taught women rights as an equal partner to their husbands and in society during a time when women were very demeaned . Many Christian men like William Wilberforce in England worked diligently to see slavery abolished as have others ; and the Bible never condones slavery...only reports on it as an established culture and even gives specific mandates for how Masters and Slaves were to treat one another . If you find disdain toward the moral mandates of the Bible, then please list a higher set of moral mandates to live by (assuming its of importance to you) ; does the Humanist Manifesto 1 and 2 offer something better ?! Obviously not since Post Modernism is bringing the USA to literal ruin . Or shall we just pretend that it isnt a reality just like a personal Creator isnt real for a highly tweaked personal Universe (?) How fallacious do you want to get so maximized personal autonomy can rule in your life?
Crisis: Homelessness Population Grows, Tent Cities Thrive
As the Congress tries to throw more "good money after bad money" in a series of bogus corporate bail-outs, America is filling up with more families with children who have lost their jobs and homes. Crisis: Homelessness Population Grows, Tent Cities Thrive - NAM
I'm no mathematician but don't your figures mean the U.S has a murder rate that is 300% more than Denmark, 150% more than France, and 50% more than Finland? We do like to kill folks.
That's true. But I think the point was if you believe the argument that guns are the cause of murders, then the murder rate should be a lot higher than in countries where citizens are not allowed to own guns. Our murder rate is higher than some countries, but lower than others.
Murder is still relatively rare in the US, and the rate has come down over the past 15 years. And if you're not a thug and don't hang out with them, your chances of being murdered are much lower than the statistics indicate.
You are right. Murder is so rare in the USA, that the number of such incidents has negligible significance when evaluating overall crime and non-criminal social interactions. According to the American Cancer Society, for every murder in the US, there are 30 deaths attributable to smoking. Homicides represent less than 1/1,000 of all reported and investigated crimes in the USA.
''what does god have to do with it? there are atheists who recycle, care about the environment, live sensibly, are good citizens etc. there are lots of god believing people who cause just as much or more problems. there are criminals who believe in god and the bible or some religion. please get a clue''
REPLY: Ive got a good clue from living the past 50 some years that when God and his biblical mandates are pushed aside for people to live by, a nation falters. A humanist nation cant stand because its based on self centered interests . Alleged 'atheists' can be moral and do virtuous things, but they cant justify living that way --- with moral relativism there is no difference between a Mother Theresa and a Hitler for its only ones opinion of whats noble and correct ; further, the tenet of no absolute moral laws opens the door wide for virtually anything being permissible which is EXACTLY the philosophy we see today running rampant with everyone doing what is 'right' in his/her own mind ; maximized pleasure seeking and complete freedom to abberant behavior is a demanded lifestyle and be damned with anything that comes against it. Even the Creator , for, who does he think he is telling me how to live . This is the Cosmic Battle that exists ; but the masses are too decieved to see the reality of it. One day, everything will come into very sharp focus for all to see. And soon for all.
hmm, you still aren't getting it. i have to laugh because christianity is not a good example of moral absolutism. it is for ritualistic dogma or doctrine which is worthless and has nothing to do with morals such as join this organization and you are okay so to speak. christianity is a great copout for those into relativism actually. there are plenty of christians who use and abuse the concept of forgiveness of sins, actually it's a loophole for them. that's moral relativism no matter how you slice and dice it.
they believe they can still sin and do whatever they want and get into heaven because they are 'saved', simple as that. all they have to do is accept jesus christ as thier personal lord and savior and ask forgiveness every time they sin and all is well. what a great net. i know plenty of christians who believe this. this is not even realistic because all personal actions have consequences but it's pretending there isn't. if everything can be forgiven, then that is no different than anyone else struggling in life. you can refute with but that's not a real christian blah blah. that's not the point, the point is that's the reality and christianity and the bible gives plenty of room to let degeneracy breed as well. what makes a real difference are laws and the enforcement of it. period
one cannot cherry pick. the factors that have led to america's greatest accomplishments are associated with our greatest ills/shame. one day, we will come to understand this and move forward.
''what does god have to do with it? there are atheists who recycle, care about the environment, live sensibly, are good citizens etc. there are lots of god believing people who cause just as much or more problems. there are criminals who believe in god and the bible or some religion. please get a clue''
REPLY: Ive got a good clue from living the past 50 some years that when God and his biblical mandates are pushed aside for people to live by, a nation falters. A humanist nation cant stand because its based on self centered interests . Alleged 'atheists' can be moral and do virtuous things, but they cant justify living that way --- with moral relativism there is no difference between a Mother Theresa and a Hitler for its only ones opinion of whats noble and correct ; further, the tenet of no absolute moral laws opens the door wide for virtually anything being permissible which is EXACTLY the philosophy we see today running rampant with everyone doing what is 'right' in his/her own mind ; maximized pleasure seeking and complete freedom to abberant behavior is a demanded lifestyle and be damned with anything that comes against it. Even the Creator , for, who does he think he is telling me how to live . This is the Cosmic Battle that exists ; but the masses are too decieved to see the reality of it. One day, everything will come into very sharp focus for all to see. And soon for all.
Hmmm. Which side of the "Cosmic Battle" were those responsible for the terror of the Inquisition on? Seems to me they thought they were doing God's work and felt themselves virtuous. Deviants come in all stripes and identifying with a certain religion doesn't exclude someone from immoral behavior.
I'll give a recent example. I'm walking down a busy road when out of nowhere someone tosses a drink at me. Add to that random people in passerby cars who scream things just for the hell of it. Such behavior would be unthinkable in my home country (by the way I'm from a small European country). I also know bored suburban teenagers who have nothing better to do on weekend nights than to go out and vandalize people's property. Most of them do drugs, which also seems to be the norm in this country. I've never encountered such a high degree of inconsiderate idiocy as I have in this country. What is it about your society that produces such degenerates? I expected Americans to be a civilized people.
You're right and I understand what you mean.
This "degenerate behavior" does not happen only in US, it is a global phenomenon, including here in Brazil where I live. But it is most evident in the USA, where such behavior and fads start and are exported all over the world, by music, by movies, by cartoons, etc...
In my opinion, this "degeneration" began in the sixities, with "is forbiden to forbid" philosophy.
Since then, generations have been "educated" in this absurd system, that became of these human beasts we see every day, every city.
People with no limits, no rules, which do not respect anything or anyone.
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