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Yes, but would they want to move to the city? Or, said another way, what will motivate them to? Price them out? Laws? The barrel of a gun?
I can see a potential good of bikes when it comes to food shopping in that, if you have to carry what you buy on your back, in saddle bags, or on a trailer, will it force for there to be far less packaging around the food?
Of course, one has to be leaning toward raw goods in the first place......and are city dwellers like that? That is one thing I have in the past and now try to do in the present when I grocery shop, to make one major trip a month, to have a pantry full so I eat off that, so I don't respond to comfort food impulses. As such, I load up the Forester on that trip, perhaps make a few stops, at HEB for most of my food, Wally World for day old bread (goes in freezer), perhaps some wine shopping.
Being conservative, economical, for trips into town do cost fuel and money. Will going to bike, Uber, subway force people not to be so economical since they can't combine trips anymore?
It can go both ways.
More people are moving to the inner cities from both rural and suburban locations and more people are abandoning their cars. Walking, biking, mass transit and hired cars are replacing car ownership.
More people are moving to the inner cities from both rural and suburban locations and more people are abandoning their cars. Walking, biking, mass transit and hired cars are replacing car ownership.
Point noted but.....
.......will that change the way we shop for food?
Think about it for a moment in that all you buy on a trip can be carried in nothing larger than a back pack. Even if you have a trailer or a hired car, you still have to take it with you into the next store if you make more than one trip.
So how will people eat like this? Will they order out, take in restaurants? Will the money saved on not having a car be then consumed this way since having the food prepared for you is at least 3X that of you preparing it yourself.
Will people cook anymore? Will they be convinced that they have to shop several times a month and hence be subjected to temptation of comfort food? Will bulk shopping, such as the 24 can box of Friskies, become a thing of the past? Will it change what we have for pets for who is willing to haul a 50 lbs bag of dog food, a 25 lbs bag of kitty litter over their shoulder?
What goes into the Forester on, if, the one day shopping trip are things like a few bags of kitty litter, 10 boxes of Friskies, 15 lbs of brisket, 5 lbs of flour, a dozen eggs, a few jars of olives and capers, 20 cans of assorted fish, 8 lbs of cheese, 3 lbs of sugar, various bags of beans and other dry goods, bags of croutons, etc etc etc.
Admittedly, one thing this shutdown has taught me or reminded me is not to live so high on the hog, to be able to go "on batteries" if there should be a need. Having stocks of food is one way to do so.
How will people eat when they are limited to only what they can carry?
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 01-22-2019 at 10:48 AM..
Think about it for a moment in that all you buy on a trip can be carried in nothing larger than a back pack. Even if you have a trailer or a hired car, you still have to take it with you into the next store if you make more than one trip.
So how will people eat like this? Will they order out, take in restaurants? Will the money saved on not having a car be then consumed this way since having the food prepared for you is at least 3X that of you preparing it yourself.
Will people cook anymore? Will they be convinced that they have to shop several times a month and hence be subjected to temptation of comfort food? Will bulk shopping, such as the 24 can box of Friskies, become a thing of the past? Will it change what we have for pets for who is willing to haul a 50 lbs bag of dog food, a 25 lbs bag of kitty litter over their shoulder?
What goes into the Forester on, if, the one day shopping trip are things like a few bags of kitty litter, 10 boxes of Friskies, 15 lbs of brisket, 5 lbs of flour, a dozen eggs, a few jars of olives and capers, 20 cans of assorted fish, 8 lbs of cheese, 3 lbs of sugar, various bags of beans and other dry goods, bags of croutons, etc etc etc.
Admittedly, one thing this shutdown has taught me or reminded me is not to live so high on the hog, to be able to go "on batteries" if there should be a need. Having stocks of food is one way to do so.
How will people eat when they are limited to only what they can carry?
If you live in the city, you're often walking distance to the grocery store. In addition about 1/2 dozen services will deliver to your door. I go to the grocery store about once a week. It's usually coupled with an errand for some other purpose. If I walk to the store but buy more than I can cart (not carry) back, there's always Uber.
Worry about having to drive 100 miles for services in the country. The city will do fine.
I participate in a forum elsewhere on over-population. Before the advent of fracking, I was quite worried about it because cheap, plentiful petroleum is central to the production levels required to feed so many people. World oil reserves were on a track to be depleted by mid-century. That would result in a drastic cut in farm yields and thus a precipitous fall in carrying capacity--ie - a "die off" of humans, chaos, etc.
But fracking has mobilized another several centuries worth of cheap, convenient energy for us and that's no longer a problem...But now I consider over-population a matter of personal consideration-- kids in a small family get more attention than those in a large family; there are economic advantages to smaller families; considerations of comfort level. Do people really like living packed together as in the photo above?
But then, if people spread out more, they would take up more natural habitat. What's the right balance?
?
I thought those concerned with overpopulation were proponents of everybody (else) fleeing from their rural locations into urban areas? This was actually considered vital to population control: Urban living=small private residences, small private residences= no land to farm, no land to farm=no need for large families (boys to work & daughters for dowry/land mergers). No need for large families=declining fertility rates.
Not to mention that empty rural areas=government control of farming. Control the food=control the people. That is also why those high-density urban areas are found in two different types of countries:
The Asian countries with low fertility rates, less natural resources & established urban dwellers (whose governments are now incentivizing increased fertility rates). Or:
Third-world countries with high-fertility rates, massive, untapped resources & new, “shanty-town†urban dwellers.
Those bulldozers in African countries are not for/by Africans from those countries; those bulldozers are from the US or China. The US doesn’t have a formal population control plan, despite coercing other countries into them via USAID but the same thing is being accomplished with economic manipulation.
[quote=TamaraSavannah;54218611] ...to be able to go "on batteries" if there should be a need. Having stocks of food is one way to do so.
quote]
City dwellers are pretty much doomed should the grid or the transportation system go down for a prolonged period over a large area. The New Orleans experience after hurricane Katrina is a good example on a small scale. They survived only because they has someplace to run to and unaffected areas could supply their needs in the emergency.
Many Yuppie type city dwellers emulate the European style of life --shopping on a daily basis & frequent dining at the cute local pastisseria. They'll be the first to starve when a Ferguson/Baltimore type riot on a more extensive scale occurs in the future. ...and it is coming-- just a matter of what's the cause- a large scale attack on our grid via computer hacking or riots in the streets when the welfare checks stop coming in the mail after the national debt gets too large for investors to remain confident.
If you can't grow your own AND hide or defend it, you're gunna starve. Talk to European immigrants who survived WWII (while there's still some left to talk to). Having food stored is ok, but it may eventually run out. You gotta be able to replenish your stores.
Manhattan has a population of ~50,000/sq mi and they apparently enjoy that. I live where there's 5/sq mi and I think it's too crowded.
If you live in the city, you're often walking distance to the grocery store. In addition about 1/2 dozen services will deliver to your door. I go to the grocery store about once a week. It's usually coupled with an errand for some other purpose. If I walk to the store but buy more than I can cart (not carry) back, there's always Uber.
Worry about having to drive 100 miles for services in the country. The city will do fine.
Well, your argument is that we will all live in the city someday, right?
So mine is one of economics, of a life style that has sought to reduce its cost by not paying for prepared food or for the cost of delivery. It is one that if the stores are closed, if the communications are knocked out (if a cell tower is down, can you call Uber?), it can still keep going.
If your grocery stores are closed for a long time, how long can you last......and for the life described above, do you expect that to change if it moved to the city?
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto
City dwellers are pretty much doomed should the grid or the transportation system go down for a prolonged period over a large area. The New Orleans experience after hurricane Katrina is a good example on a small scale. They survived only because they has someplace to run to and unaffected areas could supply their needs in the emergency.
Many Yuppie type city dwellers emulate the European style of life --shopping on a daily basis & frequent dining at the cute local pastisseria. They'll be the first to starve when a Ferguson/Baltimore type riot on a more extensive scale occurs in the future. ...and it is coming-- just a matter of what's the cause- a large scale attack on our grid via computer hacking or riots in the streets when the welfare checks stop coming in the mail after the national debt gets too large for investors to remain confident.
Sort of reminds me of a Nat'l Geo story I read back in the 70s about two kayakers doing the North West Passage. They landed on some oil company land, were taking to the grocery store to get supplies, and it was just aisle after aisle of potato chips and hats. Where's the food they asked? No around here cooks, the clerk told them. People order out or go to one of the restaurants. As it was, they found a cook who set them up with supplies.
Stories like that.....one of the reasons why I do cook.
Quote:
If you can't grow your own AND hide or defend it, you're gunna starve. Talk to European immigrants who survived WWII (while there's still some left to talk to). Having food stored is ok, but it may eventually run out. You gotta be able to replenish your stores.
There is a story somewhere out on the Net where the elder mother, of WW II, told her daughter with the family that they need to store food but the daughter responded how the Soviet economy had always been stable. Mom hid a supply of lentils in the daughters kitchen so when the Soviet economy crashed and there was no food in the stores, she told the daughter about the supply so her family was able to eat.
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 01-22-2019 at 04:35 PM..
If everyone lives in the city, who's gonna feed them? Who's gonna manufacture stuff that supports cities?
If one allows for a few folks to live outside the cities, so as to provide for the cities (this is starting to sound rather feudal), what kinds of equipment would still be allowed so those few could grow enough to feed the many? What kinds of transports must exist to move products from outside to inside the cities?
This is not an economically viable solution to anything.
Well, your argument is that we will all live in the city someday, right?
So mine is one of economics, of a life style that has sought to reduce its cost by not paying for prepared food or for the cost of delivery. It is one that if the stores are closed, if the communications are knocked out (if a cell tower is down, can you call Uber?), it can still keep going.
If your grocery stores are closed for a long time, how long can you last......and for the life described above, do you expect that to change if it moved to the city?
t.
If the world ends, your rural existence is also at risk. I believe we will not have a mass extinction in my lifetime. I like prepared food. Stores in my city will undoubtedly remain open and other than short periods of time communications are uninterrupted. Life is more robust in the city.
BTW if the cities stop working, I hope you have draft animals and old plows because refined fuels come from the cities, as does your electricity unless you have wind or solar.
If everyone lives in the city, who's gonna feed them? Who's gonna manufacture stuff that supports cities?
If one allows for a few folks to live outside the cities, so as to provide for the cities (this is starting to sound rather feudal), what kinds of equipment would still be allowed so those few could grow enough to feed the many? What kinds of transports must exist to move products from outside to inside the cities?
This is not an economically viable solution to anything.
It exists today and works very well. Over 80% of the population live in cities and that is increasing. You should actually take an economics course before opining on economics.
If the world ends, your rural existence is also at risk. I believe we will not have a mass extinction in my lifetime. I like prepared food. Stores in my city will undoubtedly remain open and other than short periods of time communications are uninterrupted. Life is more robust in the city.
BTW if the cities stop working, I hope you have draft animals and old plows because refined fuels come from the cities, as does your electricity unless you have wind or solar.
I do have solar.
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