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Pretty sure the 8-10k involves a car payment of some sort, unless you work for BMW where you get a nice lease option... and how nice a ride you want to have. (remember, don't spend more than 25% of your monthly income on Rims!) Most families with 2 paid-for vehicles probably spend ~5k/year. ($60 gas/week, $300 tax/year, $100 insurance/mo + maintenance - oil, tires, etc).
8-10k would be an enormous car payment. We only pay for 1 vehicle, which cost us $17k, and our total yearly cost (and it gets really bad gas mileage) is way less than 8k.
Aside from that, the BMW lease options vary between positions - at the lower levels you're going to still pay just as much as someone leasing a normal car, so it's not like it's this magical free car or anything like that (for everyone, at least).
i never understood the appeal of using mass transit for some people.
Probably just personal preference. I dislike driving. When my wife and I take vacations, we often try and go places that have good public transportation so that we can get off the plane and get anywhere we need to without ever having to rent a car. Very relaxing that way to us. Much more so than having to drive, especially in places we are not familiar with.
This past year we took a 2 week vacation starting in Chicago and ending in SF (stops in Denver and Reno (Tahoe) along the way). We took trains between the cities and in the cities we used nothing but public transit and walking minus a trip to see Tahoe and a trip to see a redwood forest north of SF (which were not feasible/too expensive to rely on public transit). The rest of the time we saw tons of stuff and went 2 weeks without ever worrying about a car, or parking, or gas. It was very nice
Last edited by Sunbather; 02-11-2013 at 06:45 AM..
Okay.
I admit that I do not recall EXACTLY where that figure came from, but I believe that the figure was USD 8,000-9,000 per annum was the "average fully-loaded cost" of running a car for the average American, as reported on a recent Strong Towns.org podcast.
While I enjoy owning and operating my own car, I definitely can see the appeal of using mass transit and walking/bicycling around town to save money and keep an active lifestyle. It seems that the area is not the friendliest for pedestrians. Sidewalks and shoulders are not the most common features in my neck of the woods.
I can see this number being reached quite easily for a single vehicle, even with a practical family car. Let's look at a hypothetical purchase:
$23000 financed 60 mos. (ie a $30,000 popular mid to large size family vehicle after down payment):
$400 loan payment x 12 = $4800
$200 gas x 12 = $2400
$100 insurance x 12 = $1200
$450 property tax x 1 = $450
$75 dealer oil change and tire rotation x 4 = $300
$tire replacement
$winter tires
$brakes
$scheduled maintenance
$car washes
$depreciation
$parking
etc
That easily adds up to $9,000 per year for the 5 first years of ownership. This is just a hypothetical cost breakdown of a normal car based loosely on my own vehicles. My wife and I keep a car around 7 years, I do all of my own maintenance, pay insurance premiums in full, pay off loans within 1-2 years, etc to keep our cost of ownership down. Of course, if you buy a used, reliable small car it would be significantly cheaper. Even if you wanted to escape Greenville for the mountains or beach, rental car agencies often have great weekend rates and you could rent a nice car for $20-$30 if the need arises.
My advice is stay in one of those "great cities" and enjoy the rest of your life there, because you'll probably never be happy living elsewhere.
For what it's worth, I do know people living comfortably in Greenville without a vehicle. I enjoy visiting the nearby mountains and lakes regularly via an automobile.
That's your opinion. My own is different.
I am not the one who will have to change. Rising oil prices, and rising taxes on gasoline, are going to may driving more and more expensive. And this change could come MUCH FASTER than most people are expectiing.
If you have read all the links I have provided (to support this argument of rising prices), it would be interesting to know what parts of the argument you are not agreeing with.
Some are just in denial, and do not want to think about the rising price, and are just hoping things will go back to some old "normal." I don't see that happening.
8-10k would be an enormous car payment. We only pay for 1 vehicle, which cost us $17k, and our total yearly cost (and it gets really bad gas mileage) is way less than 8k.
Aside from that, the BMW lease options vary between positions - at the lower levels you're going to still pay just as much as someone leasing a normal car, so it's not like it's this magical free car or anything like that (for everyone, at least).
8k-10k would be an enormous car payment, but if you factor in everything I listed above, it's quite reasonable as a total yearly cost of ownership.
While I enjoy owning and operating my own car, I definitely can see the appeal of using mass transit and walking/bicycling around town to save money and keep an active lifestyle. It seems that the area is not the friendliest for pedestrians. Sidewalks and shoulders are not the most common features in my neck of the woods.
I can see this number being reached quite easily for a single vehicle...
That easily adds up to $9,000 per year for the 5 first years of ownership.
While you may be able to pull some average figures for lots of things on the internet, I'm very organized when it comes to our finances and I am always tracking our trends and budgets. That's how I was able to provide you that factor for our car expenses last year. So while $8000 per year per car might be some sort of national average, ~$2200 was what my wife and I spent for two cars here last year...
Did you follow the link? Perhaps not.
Clearly, some drive for less, and it is usually (but not always) linked to incomes.
Here's how they driving costs were broken down amongst five income groups:
Did you follow the link? I think not.
Clearly, some drive for less, and it is usually (but not always) linked to incomes.
Here's how they driving costs were broken down amongst five income groups:
xx
I did follow 2 of the 3 links you provided (couldn't do the mp3 at work). I'm not sure what makes you think I didn't read the links you posted? We are in the highest 20% of income earners and still spend that little.
But yes, just because someone may fall into a certain income category doesn't mean they have to spend that much. I mean, I know you realize that since you said "(not always)" and I can tell by your inquiries that you seem to be responsible with your income
So, while I can *easily* see where someone CAN spend $8-10k annually on a car the way a lot of Americans utilize cars, it is very easy not to for someone in your situation. That's all I was trying to point out to you, by using my wife and I as an example.
We have been talking a great deal about car costs...
But I am still interested in the WHERE part. That is, WHERE I might live comfortably in Greenville without owning a car.
Here's one idea that I had when I visited Greenville about 18 months ago. I thought we (my girlfriend and I might live comfortably at the Brio Condo at 1001 South Church St. My logic was that this was close enough to downtown that I could walk, take a bus, or cycle.
Do people know areas that would be a better choice?
I did follow 2 of the 3 links you provided (couldn't do the mp3 at work).
So, while I can *easily* see where someone CAN spend $8-10k annually on a car the way a lot of Americans utilize cars, it is very easy not to for someone in your situation. That's all I was trying to point out to you, by using my wife and I as an example.
Yes. I agree with that.
In particular, it makes sense to keep the cost down, if you drive as little as possible.
I don;t rule out owning a car. But I would want to have a cost in the bottom 20%, if I owned one.
If transport infrastructure were better, I think many would do that. And as costs rise, I think many will be FORCED to economise on their driving costs in various ways. For me, moving to a carfree area (in my city of choice) is the very best way to economise.
I wonder how many people CHOOSE their living place to minimise driving costs? For me, it makes perfect sense.
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