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I don't think it was that long. It was just before the South Ridge/Retail developed there with the exclusion of Walmart.
I don't get why everyone wants another Walmart. Don't we have enough? We have all seen it. How about something different. The Harris Teeter will be spot on and meet that need for something new and exciting. Looking forward.
I think Walmart has opportunities to move into additional trade areas in Greenville County through Walmart Supercenter and Walmart Neighborhood Market. Moonville would be among those trade areas.
I am excited about Harris Teeter, through Kroger, returning to Greenville. I hope Harris Teeter will be more active and have more than three stores in Greenville County this time.
I agree. Even the CVS on Main has a drive-thru doesn't it. Seems like a necessity for a pharmacy to fully compete these days.
A drive thru is optional. Having one allows a chain pharmacy location more hours for pharmacy technicians. I have not worked at a pharmacy with a drive thru, and I have seen many successful pharmacies without a drive thru.
that is easy for you to say if you are not the one who will be paying for it.
it seems to me parking lots and parking garages and traffic are part of living in an urban area.
the parking garages are not on Main Street which is the main attraction. i think parking garages are less front and center in Greenville compared to other cities. There are not a ton of parking lots in the downtown area.
I will pay for it if there's a solid development plan. I'm happy to throw some money behind a development as an investor. I'm not willing to put money behind much of anything that's being developed downtown right now because it's not being done in a smart way. The city is setting itself up for property value decline.
Seeing Main Street as the main attraction is exactly the problem. We're letting the rest of the city go to crap so that we can preserve the niceness of that single road. We need to build in a way where every road is the main attraction. Every street needs to be as nice as main street and for that to happen we have to figure out another method of parking other than building giant parking garages that cover entire city blocks. Just build them under the buildings. I know we have the ability to dig a hole. It's not rocket science and it's not hugely expensive.
Knox White has been great at making an existing urban area nicer than it was but I'm beginning to doubt whether our leadership in Greenville knows how to build new urban areas on previously vacant land. There is no clear urban plan or design guidelines. There's no regard for demographics and the long term effect of what type of housing is being built where. Some developments on the larger side, like District West, have no street level retail. All of the new apartments are being built out of wood and if you look at the reviews every single new expensive apartment in Greenville has poor reviews because people are annoyed that they can hear their neighbors.
We have no good leadership and we have no good plan. There's a steady flow of moving trucks heading here and we're turning an opportunity into a mess of suburban spaghetti and cheaply built apartment buildings. We're too busy looking at the immediate additional cost of building something like an underground parking garage while ignoring the long term cost of not doing it.
There is no way in hell that anything like what is being described in China is going to be built here. At County Square or anywhere else. High rise construction is expensive and only done where land prices require it. That doesn't describe any stitch of land here or anywhere else in SC.
Something akin to what is proposed for Bull Street Commons in Columbia, is the most likely result at County Square. Multiple buildings between 4 and 10 stories with office, residential and retail and perhaps a hotel.
I will pay for it if there's a solid development plan. I'm happy to throw some money behind a development as an investor. I'm not willing to put money behind much of anything that's being developed downtown right now because it's not being done in a smart way. The city is setting itself up for property value decline.
Seeing Main Street as the main attraction is exactly the problem. We're letting the rest of the city go to crap so that we can preserve the niceness of that single road. We need to build in a way where every road is the main attraction. Every street needs to be as nice as main street and for that to happen we have to figure out another method of parking other than building giant parking garages that cover entire city blocks. Just build them under the buildings. I know we have the ability to dig a hole. It's not rocket science and it's not hugely expensive.
Knox White has been great at making an existing urban area nicer than it was but I'm beginning to doubt whether our leadership in Greenville knows how to build new urban areas on previously vacant land. There is no clear urban plan or design guidelines. There's no regard for demographics and the long term effect of what type of housing is being built where. Some developments on the larger side, like District West, have no street level retail. All of the new apartments are being built out of wood and if you look at the reviews every single new expensive apartment in Greenville has poor reviews because people are annoyed that they can hear their neighbors.
We have no good leadership and we have no good plan. There's a steady flow of moving trucks heading here and we're turning an opportunity into a mess of suburban spaghetti and cheaply built apartment buildings. We're too busy looking at the immediate additional cost of building something like an underground parking garage while ignoring the long term cost of not doing it.
I think you are grossly underestimating the cost difference between above ground and underground parking. Its something like on average $10k more per parking space, and the cost only goes up the further down you have to go. Right now the real estate costs in DT Greenville are nowhere close to the levels of where substantial underground parking becomes worthwhile and I doubt that will change any time soon.
It interesting that are you are saying downtown needs more middle income housing (I agree with that), but then you also want higher building costs. Those two concepts don't really mix well. Higher costs + lower rents = Much longer return on investment = Much harder to find investors.
with underground parking, they would also need to have more HVAC, exhaust fans, and supply fans to provide fresh air. Parking garages above ground can take advantage of natural ventilation given they are open to the outside.
Ventilating a parking garage is a big deal so you don't have buildup of carbon monoxide and other toxic fumes from car exhaust.
The energy costs to ventilate underground parking garages is significantly more than above ground parking garages.
it is going to cost a pile of money to create a massive hole for a 3 or more story parking garage underground. i assume they would have to break up a lot of rock.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 01-23-2017 at 01:33 PM..
I think you are grossly underestimating the cost difference between above ground and underground parking. Its something like on average $10k more per parking space, and the cost only goes up the further down you have to go.
$10K per parking space is not a relatable number. If you finance that out over 30 years that's only something like $140 per month. Do you think that it's worth $140 per month to people to live in an actual city over a strip mall parking lot? I think so. This is especially true when you consider that people may not even need a car if they can just walk to work and the store. With the parking garage/strip mall concept we're currently going after that's not even a possibility.
I'd pay $140 per month to live in a city without parking lots or above ground garages.
And then what about the fact that you can increase housing supply by not having the air space sucked up by a tall parking garage? If the supply of housing is higher the price may be lower partially offsetting the cost of building the underground garage.
There is no way in hell that anything like what is being described in China is going to be built here. At County Square or anywhere else. High rise construction is expensive and only done where land prices require it. That doesn't describe any stitch of land here or anywhere else in SC.
Something akin to what is proposed for Bull Street Commons in Columbia, is the most likely result at County Square. Multiple buildings between 4 and 10 stories with office, residential and retail and perhaps a hotel.
Plus, there are few, if any, building codes in China. You could build a garage with 2x4's and get by with it.
with underground parking, they would also need to have more HVAC, exhaust fans, and supply fans to provide fresh air. Parking garages above ground can take advantage of natural ventilation given they are open to the outside.
So we need to install a fan in the hole then. Glad we could solve that moon launch of a problem.
Plus, there are few, if any, building codes in China. You could build a garage with 2x4's and get by with it.
Not true, at least in the cities. Rural areas are a different story. I've lived in multiple Chinese built buildings and they're all built out of at least 6in thick concrete. I've found their construction to be far superior in practice than our own. It usually looks like crap but it works well. Here it looks great but it works like crap. I've never heard a neighbor in a Chinese apartment or condo building. Here it's a different story. They don't build with wood over there, even on interior walls.
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