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a 270 is just a necked down 30/06. Why suggest a caliber with limited loadings & availability to a new shooter?
A 30/30 will kill a deer just as dead at 200 yards as an 06 will. Its the shooter that matters much more than the gun & more deer are wounded by guys with "flat" shooting calibers taking 200 yard shots than guys with 30/30's taking them.
Theres alot of myths developed by the industry to make folks think they need to hit the magic 3000 fps mark or have the new wonder magnum. Guns dont make hunters or shooters, shooting does. Buy a gun you are comfortable with and can shoot alot. IMO a 44 magnum carbine you can shoot very often is much better than a $40 a box high power caliber you cant shoot alot. Especially for a new shooter, advertizing hype is just that & doesn't take game. Of course others may well feel different.
A 30-30 in the right hands.....can kill a deer at 200 yards........in the right hands........
Why give a new hunter SO many options with the re-load ability of the 06? Just starting......And availability, not sure what you mean there....they are just as common as the 06...
I only use single shot rifles...... .243 right now, Rossi bull barrel. Anyway...the gun does not matter....it is the person behind the gun....if the person cannot shoot, I don't care if you put a .375 H&H magnum in their hands...and the animal at 50 feet...
Opinions, everyone has them....and like most things...everyone has their loves and hates...............but nothing like a good discussion...
**************Added this************* great article....
The diff between the 7.62 X 39 nd the 30-30 is that the downrange ballistics of that flat-bulleted 30-30 significantly reduces it's velocity (and thus energy) after a mere 100 or so yards, while the 7.62 X 39 will do much better out to 200+ yards.
Someone above did mention the Hornady LeverEvolution rounds. This is not a minor invention; it places a pointy bullet into the picture, thereby really increasing the downrange velocity by reducing velocity loss due to the usually miserable aerodynamic shape of flat bullets.
But if you are picking a new rifle, do take a look at the new Marlin lever guns (check out their website) that are chambered in their proprietary new rounds (one's in .308 cal, and the other in an even better .338 caliber). Both will work very well for deer, but the larger one would also work for black bears and elk at reasonable ranges (<200 yds).
The Browning BLR levers in 308 or 270 (a now largely ignored but flawless round, especially at ranges over 250 yards) would be better for longer ranges. The real question is, how many hunters can actually make a hit 100% of the time, in any typical hunting weather condition, into a pie-plate-sized target at, say, 370 yards after huffing themselves up a steep slope. Answer: about 15%. Not such a good number, huh? The numbers aren't even that good at 200 yards. Many hunters go to the range and proclaim they are expert sots when they happen to place two rounds into a 2" group at 100 yards from a bench rest position, when their hearts and lungs are not stressed out.
Fitted with a low-power variable scope of good quality (like a Leupold, Burris or the new Redfields), and that Marlin 336 type, or Browning BLR, you'll be set with some reliable quality hunting gear, and not overly expensive. (Not to discourage, say, a Rem 700 or the new Marlin bolt gun)
Next, practice with it until you can actually hit something after you've puffed your way up a steep slope, come over the top, can literally hear your heart thrumping in your chest, and the buck muley of your dreams is there, a "mere" 175 yards away. He glances your way, and so you have about 10 - 15 seconds, tops, to get set up into a very stable shooting position, and then make that shot. and be prepared to follow up in case he doesn't go down like in the movies.
PS: Don't do it if you're not sure, because to bang away in hopes of a "statistical" hit is not ethical. hitting that buck in the left foreleg knee so he can, in agony, run off to die, is simply not right!
Know beforehand if you can make the shot or not. Practice, practice, practice. Then, later, go practice again.
Trouble with the 7.62X39 is it cannot drive an equal bullet nearly the same speed as a 30/30 can.
Generally you need a 120 grain bullet to get near 2300 fps. Also 99% of available ammo for it is not suitable for hunting and neither are the guns chambered for it.
I'v got a 308MX & its a great gun but not all that much more than a 30/30 which can also be fed the fancy Hornady ammo. Matter of fact the leverevolution stuff is available in every lever action centerfire caliber Marlin chambers at this time.
As noted the BLR is a great gun. Mines a 7mm08 & makes easy hits out to 300 or so yards.
The most important thing is getting to know your gun & your limitations. If you take the time to really become proficient with your guns you will soon learn that most of the limitations placed on the older rounds are simply BS.
Another thing to realize is that most of us really dont need to reach out past even 150 yards. Certainly in some terrain you do but most of the US is wooded & in the woods a deer 300 yards away may as well be a mile away.
Trouble with the 7.62X39 is it cannot drive an equal bullet nearly the same speed as a 30/30 can.
Generally you need a 120 grain bullet to get near 2300 fps. Also 99% of available ammo for it is not suitable for hunting and neither are the guns chambered for it.
I'v got a 308MX & its a great gun but not all that much more than a 30/30 which can also be fed the fancy Hornady ammo. Matter of fact the leverevolution stuff is available in every lever action centerfire caliber Marlin chambers at this time.
As noted the BLR is a great gun. Mines a 7mm08 & makes easy hits out to 300 or so yards.
The most important thing is getting to know your gun & your limitations. If you take the time to really become proficient with your guns you will soon learn that most of the limitations placed on the older rounds are simply BS.
Another thing to realize is that most of us really dont need to reach out past even 150 yards. Certainly in some terrain you do but most of the US is wooded & in the woods a deer 300 yards away may as well be a mile away.
Absolutely correct. I grew up hunting deer in NW PA and never shot a deer at more than 50 yds. That was with a .32 WinSp. Now in MD I have to use 12 ga. slugs. Don't deer hunt much here now but the shots here are at a similar range.
Tin Knocker, What are you saying here? "Also 99% of available ammo for it is not suitable for hunting and neither are the guns chambered for it." It's like you left a thought in mid phase or something???
,,,,As noted the BLR is a great gun. Mines a 7mm08 & makes easy hits out to 300 or so yards.,,,.
My Browning BLR .308 was made in 1973 in Belgium. My dad has a 1971 model in .308 as well. I was looking at a BLR .223 at a gun shop and mentioned the Belgium fact to the salesman. He was adamant that they were never made in Belgium, I informed him they were not made there anymore.
The newer ones look ok, lighter receivers. The new magazines are a kind of flush fit idea, mine is not.
I guess they are made in Japan now. Some very fine guns coming out of Japan. SKB shotguns are very nice.
Tin Knocker, What are you saying here? "Also 99% of available ammo for it is not suitable for hunting and neither are the guns chambered for it." It's like you left a thought in mid phase or something???
I meant just what I said I think. LOl.
Most of the guns chambered for 7.63X39 are military semi autos, they'll work but somehow an AK or SKS just doesn't strike me as a really suitable hunting arm. That said I wouldn't want to stop someone from doing it if they wanted. On the ammo, most of its FMJ military ball.
I think Rem & Win both offer hunting ammunition though, and theres also bolt actions chambered for it so doing it right is certainly possible. But its not something I'd recomend to a newbie.
My Browning BLR .308 was made in 1973 in Belgium. My dad has a 1971 model in .308 as well. I was looking at a BLR .223 at a gun shop and mentioned the Belgium fact to the salesman. He was adamant that they were never made in Belgium, I informed him they were not made there anymore.
The newer ones look ok, lighter receivers. The new magazines are a kind of flush fit idea, mine is not.
I guess they are made in Japan now. Some very fine guns coming out of Japan. SKB shotguns are very nice.
Mines an early *** model 81. Its got a steel reciever & flush mag.
Miroku in Japan has been making Brownings for awhile now & the higher end Winchesters too. They both belong to the same parent company.
The *** Winchesters are head & shoulders above recent American Winchesters. Make them look like junk but you pay for it.
Mines an early *** model 81. Its got a steel reciever & flush mag.
Miroku in Japan has been making Brownings for awhile now & the higher end Winchesters too. They both belong to the same parent company.
The *** Winchesters are head & shoulders above recent American Winchesters. Make them look like junk but you pay for it.
I am assuming you meant J-A-P in the astrisked areas. LOL. I love it when my grandfather talks like that. "Had to clear them islands of the J-A-Ps before we could put landing strips down. Them sombitches were dug in like ticks." LMAO
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