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Old 01-30-2008, 08:33 PM
 
436 posts, read 653,527 times
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Exactly- total hysterectomy has nothing to do with the ovaries, the hormone mills.

Thank you for posting that information. Many women still experience sexual gratification (if they want to) post hysterectomy

Last edited by eddiek; 01-30-2008 at 08:51 PM..

 
Old 01-30-2008, 08:40 PM
 
436 posts, read 653,527 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bern View Post
Burgi,

[This insinuation is insulting regardless of the point you are trying to get across.]

It wasn't an insinuation, it's a fact. Of the 850,000 women counseled by the HERS Foundation, about half have undergone hysterectomy. The majority of women report that they were told that the doctor was not going to perform a hysterectomy just because the consent form had added to exploratory surgery "possible tah/bso", or they consented to hysterectomy but not removal of their ovaries and the consent form said "possible tah/bso, and they were given the assurance that it's just standard to put that on consent forms, but of course the doctors not going to remove their ovaries. And in fact when "possible" follows what was actually agreed to the majority of women come out of the operating room without their uterus and ovaries.

[The problem this post is experiancing is related to blanket statements. No two people are ever going to have the same symptoms, reactions, or effects to the same procedure.]

I don't agree with this statement. There are effects of surgery that are the same for everyone who undergoes that particular surgery. For example, when a foot is amputated that person will walk on the leg's stump, and no longer be able to walk as they did before. If an eye is removed that person will be unable to see out of the eye's socket. If a hand is amputated the person will no longer be able to have the function of their fingers. When the uterus is amputated a woman will no longer be able to experience uterine orgasm, the support to her bladder is compromised, support to the bladder is lost, the vagina is shortened, and she is at a three times greater risk of myocardial infarction.

[Doctors undergo a tremendous amount of education and training for 10+ years....and they still make mistakes.]

Of course, everyone makes mistakes. However not informing women of the well documented adverse of hysterectomy and female castration is not a mistake, it is a choice. I believe that you are dedicated to good health care, as you said you believe most health care workers are, so to that end you will want to watch the 12-minute educational video "Female Anatomy: the Functions of the Female Organs" at hersfoundation. If you click on "Nerve Supply" you will be able to trace the hypogastric plexus of nerves that attach to the uterus and then branch out to the external genitalia and then travel up the spine to the nipples. It will be immediately clear to you why, when these nerves are severed during hysterectomy, there is loss of sensation in the external genitalia, vagina, and nipples. The other three anatomy charts with the "Nerve Supply" are equally informative. The video was reviewed and approved as accurate by two gynecologists, an anatomy professor, and three lawyers.

I think the greatest danger to women is for anyone to try to protect them by withholding accurate information about the well documented adverse effects of hysterectomy and female castration. Women don't need or want to be protected as though they are children who, if told the truth, might find it too scary and make a decision about what they will and will not allow to be done to their body that you might not agree with. They, not you, will live with what is done to them in an operating room.
Sorry, but I cannot believe that the number of patients stated here had no idea the physicians was going to perform (possibly) a TAH/BSO). IF they did not know this by the time they entered the pre-operative area, they were absolutely dense to sign the form. Plain and simple folks. IF one does not understand the procedure about to be performed, DON'T SIGN the consent forms. Nobody is forcing you to do so. You can get up, get dressed, and walk out.

"[The problem this post is experiancing is related to blanket statements. No two people are ever going to have the same symptoms, reactions, or effects to the same procedure.]"

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT

The response quoted is simply a rationalization, based upon the "adverse effects posted at the web site mentioned.


"Of course, everyone makes mistakes. However not informing women of the well documented adverse of hysterectomy and female castration is not a mistake, it is a choice."

I know of no physicians who withhold information purposely form any patient.

PS: when you look at he nervous system, look at the efferent as well as he afferent systems.

Last edited by Mattie Jo; 02-01-2008 at 12:07 PM..
 
Old 01-30-2008, 08:47 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,925 posts, read 30,876,347 times
Reputation: 30577
I am glad I got another opinion when my doctor tried to make me think a hysterectomy was the only way for fibroids, it's not.
 
Old 01-30-2008, 08:49 PM
 
436 posts, read 653,527 times
Reputation: 133
Second opinions are good.
 
Old 01-30-2008, 09:30 PM
 
11 posts, read 40,597 times
Reputation: 23
Default Burgi

[The problem I have with your previous posts had more to do with the fact you added "nurses" into your statement.]

There are nurses who are dedicated and who tell women they do not have to sign a consent form if they don't agree with it. Sadly, there are also many nurses who trivialize their concerns and bully them into signing consent forms. The good are good, the bad are bad, and the good do not make the bad better, and the bad do make the good worse.

[This thread will show more creditability if you cite multiple respected medical websites in your statistical information.]

Unfortunately, most web sites about hysterectomy are promoting a procedure, surgery, or drugs. They are not an independent source of information, therefore they lack credibility. If you know of a web site to recommend I would be most interested in checking it out.

[I stand by my statement that not all patients have the same symptoms/side effects.
- As a matter of fact, my mother, 56 yrs old, had a total hysterectomy at 27 yrs old. They removed the entire uterus and cervix. They also removed her ovaries. She has been on hormones @25 yrs. She does not feel like her sexuallity and life have been ripped out of her body. Her ability to achieve orgasm never changed (yes, sadly, we have had this conversation).]

I am often asked if I believe that every single woman loses the ability to experience orgasm after hysterectomy. I prefer not use such sweeping statements. If a person whose leg was amputated insisted that they are the same, that their ability to walk and do everything they did when they had two legs is absolutely unchanged, I would not argue with them. If I take away their defenses I have nothing to replace it with. It's a very threatening thing to tell anyone that you are asexual, that you no longer have sexual feeling. If your mother experienced uterine orgasm prior to having her uterus removed, and she continues to experience uterine orgasm, I would not argue with her. If she doesn't mind that her vagina was shortened, I'm glad she's not bother by it. If she has not had cardiovascular disease she is extremely lucky, because castrated women (women whose ovaries were removed) have a 7.2 times greater incidence of cardiovascular disease than women with an intact uterus and ovaries. I counsel women who have undergone hysterectomy and castration. Occasionally women start out by saying "Well I had a hysterectomy, and I'm fine. My sex life is better than ever." I say "I'm glad to hear it. What can I do for you?" There's usually a little stammering and then the problems begin to spill out, one after the other. Finally, there is the real reason for the call. She has had not sexual feeling since the surgery, and she's never told anyone before. In fact, she's told everyone her sex life is great, better than ever. It's a deep dark secret she's been hiding for many years, terrified someone will find out, particularly her husband. It doesn't make anyone, woman or man, feel good to say "I have no sexual feeling, I'm dead in bed".
 
Old 01-31-2008, 04:07 AM
 
5,006 posts, read 14,113,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiek View Post
What is YOUR definition of COMPLETE hysterectomy?

Not all women lose their sex drive following hysterectomy, and I believe I have stated that. It is not a matter of my not saying so, it is a matter of people not listening, or wanting to admit that what I am saying is true. I have no control over how they accept my answers, any more than I have control over how they respond sexually after surgery.

Many women go on with the same or better sex lives after the hysterectomy, regardless of what the site states. A hysterectomy IS NOT the end of sexuality for everyone. I used to do statistics in college, and did take surveys as well. i know that surveys can be easily manipulated to show exactly what your predetermined result was going to be. I am not saying that is what is done, I am only stating my experiences.

I think you are assuming a lot in this regard. If you regard 'complete hysterectomy" as including the ovaries ( a wrong interpretation) then there could be a diminished sex drive. Note: diminished- not necessarily total. If the ovaries are removed, is the woman on hormones or not? What was her response level PRIOR to the surgery? What was her attitude toward sex in general? What is her attitude now?

Sorry, but there are women who look for this to be the "end all" for the sex life. I have met them; I know them. BUT- hysterectomy, even with oophorectomy need not be the end of sexual response and the sex life between two WILLNG people. It is a matter of working things out together.
TOGETHER is the key.
A complete hysterectomy--total. Removing ovaries and cervix as well as the uterus.

Quote:
What was her response level PRIOR to the surgery? What was her attitude toward sex in general? What is her attitude now?
The women I know had enjoyed sex before their hysterectomy, but afterwards they had no sex drive, even hormonal replacement didn't really work well because of side effects of testosterone. To have a doctor question a woman's psychological makeup before and after a hysterecomy is basically blaming the woman. If a woman goes into surgery thinking that she will have a sex drive afterwards and then comes out of this surgery without one, how can that possibly be psychological, and yet that is what doctors will claim?

Last edited by Mattie Jo; 02-02-2008 at 02:12 PM..
 
Old 01-31-2008, 04:20 AM
 
5,006 posts, read 14,113,798 times
Reputation: 2445
Quote:
I counsel women who have undergone hysterectomy and castration. Occasionally women start out by saying "Well I had a hysterectomy, and I'm fine. My sex life is better than ever." I say "I'm glad to hear it. What can I do for you?" There's usually a little stammering and then the problems begin to spill out, one after the other. Finally, there is the real reason for the call. She has had not sexual feeling since the surgery, and she's never told anyone before. In fact, she's told everyone her sex life is great, better than ever. It's a deep dark secret she's been hiding for many years, terrified someone will find out, particularly her husband. It doesn't make anyone, woman or man, feel good to say "I have no sexual feeling, I'm dead in bed".
Thank you so much for that post. I worked in a psychiatrist's office and got to know many of the clients. I have heard the same things. Some women that I knew were very close friends.


Women don't want to admit that they are now asexual. Do you know how demeaning that is?

I admire these women that have come on here and admitted that they no longer enjoy sex, and I don't think it is right to say, "Well, they are disgruntled," or to imply that it is their fault somehow that they have no sex drive.

Last edited by Mattie Jo; 02-02-2008 at 02:14 PM..
 
Old 01-31-2008, 06:02 AM
 
436 posts, read 653,527 times
Reputation: 133
"To have a doctor question a woman's psychological makeup before and after a hysterecomy is basically blaming the woman. If a woman goes into surgery thinking that she will have a sex drive afterwards and then comes out of this surgery without one, how can that possibly be psychological, and yet that is what doctors will claim?"

Again, this does to happen to, form what I see and hear, the majority off women. Things are questioned in an effort to find reasons, not place blames.
 
Old 01-31-2008, 07:24 AM
 
17 posts, read 58,638 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I am glad I got another opinion when my doctor tried to make me think a hysterectomy was the only way for fibroids, it's not.
I am so glad you got a second opinion and didn't have a hysterectomy along with being castrated. Now, you can go on and enjoy your life with your sex organs intact. HAPPY FOR YOU. It is not a good life when you were mislead into thinking a hysterectomy/castration was the only option for you when now I know it wasn't. I remember asking question and not getting the right answers. WHY DID HE DO THIS TO ME IF IT WASN'T FOR MONEY.

Last edited by Mattie Jo; 02-02-2008 at 02:16 PM..
 
Old 01-31-2008, 07:34 AM
 
11 posts, read 40,597 times
Reputation: 23
Default jessaka

Your insight about young hysterectomized women who are dating is right on the mark. I counsel women who were hysterectomized and castrated as young as 11 years old. More common today are women in their late teens and early twenties who have discovered their sexuality and then abruptly had it taken from them. They often have difficulty trying to remain part of their peer group, as you pointed out, something as casual as friends talking about a guy who's hot no longer is spontaneous for hysterectomized women, it becomes intellectual. The loss of sexual feeling is much more than the act of sex, there is also a loss of sexual energy and vitality. It is as great a loss for women of all ages, but for very young women they have had very little time to even enjoy and explore their sexuality. It's a huge loss.

Your insight into the devastating effects of the surgery experienced by hysterectomized and castrated women, and your sensitivity and support is much appreciated.
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