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Trump has resurrected America First as a doctrine. Some say the term is ugly, mostly relating to WW2 and the desire to stay out of it. My question is how would the war have turned out if indeed America had stayed out? I am not at all sure that Germany would have prevailed.
America First roots are in George Washington's farewell address. It's as old as the country and Washington's advice remains the best a President ever left his successors. Expanded by the Monroe Doctrine and enhanced my Manifest Destiny it provided the complete rational for the establishment of the New World. Free from the dynastic ambitions of the Old and free from it meddling, American nations could create their own destinies.
Not that there wouldn't squabbles, but they were able to resolve them without the interference of France, Spain or England or, later, Germany.
Nothing but trouble has come since America turned its back on Washington's wise advice. A place in the sun carried a high price, which we are still paying. We've made this mess and covered ourselves in it.
America First roots are in George Washington's farewell address. It's as old as the country and Washington's advice remains the best a President ever left his successors. Expanded by the Monroe Doctrine and enhanced my Manifest Destiny it provided the complete rational for the establishment of the New World. Free from the dynastic ambitions of the Old and free from it meddling, American nations could create their own destinies.
Not that there wouldn't squabbles, but they were able to resolve them without the interference of France, Spain or England or, later, Germany.
Nothing but trouble has come since America turned its back on Washington's wise advice. A place in the sun carried a high price, which we are still paying. We've made this mess and covered ourselves in it.
You do know that when he said "avoid foreign entanglements" he didn't mean to avoid alliances with other nations, don't you?
Always forgotten. Poor Canada. The Manhattan Project was a US/UK/CAN effort.
Americans tend to forget all other nations, you would think for example there were no British or Canadians at Normandy on Dday, despite the British troops alone outnumbering our American 'friends', Canada usually gets even less mention than the British!
America got involved because we were afraid of Germany more than any other country. Germany would've seize control of Europe and Japan would control Asia which will eventually lead to the 2 countries double teaming on the US eventually.
Americans tend to forget all other nations, you would think for example there were no British or Canadians at Normandy on Dday, despite the British troops alone outnumbering our American 'friends', Canada usually gets even less mention than the British!
Americans tend to forget all other nations, you would think for example there were no British or Canadians at Normandy on Dday, despite the British troops alone outnumbering our American 'friends', Canada usually gets even less mention than the British!
Yah, that doesn't jibe with numbers I've seen. See D-Day by the Numbers Charting and Graphing WWII Data, A Lesson Plan from The Department of Education of The National D-Day Museum, New Orleans, LA, USA www.ddaymuseum.org :
"2. Use these statistics from June 6, 1944—D-Day—to fill in and label the percentages of each country’s military force in Normandy on the pie chart. Then answer the questions below.
"D-Day Combatants
Country # of Soldiers on D-Day Percentage
*United States 95,000 34%
*Great Britain 60,000 21%
*Canada 20,000 7%
Germany 105,000 38%
*Allies"
It's an interesting exercise, looking @ size of the US military from 1939 to 1945 by year; number & % of combatants @ Normandy on D-Day; casualties WWII, military v. civilian, % of pre-war population for USSR, Germany, France, US, GB
America got involved because we were afraid of Germany more than any other country. Germany would've seize control of Europe and Japan would control Asia which will eventually lead to the 2 countries double teaming on the US eventually.
Germany never did fully control Europe, even the parts they conquered. & they strained their economy & population to take as much as they did, & never did conquer the USSR. They rolled over France & the Low Countries, which was a shock. But the BEF managed to evacuate.
The US military thinking was that if UK were lost, we'd have to build up a base & enlist allies (from the UK Commonwealth?) somewhere else - N. Africa? That was too painful to contemplate. See Rendezvous with destiny, Michael Fullilove, Penguin Press, c2013(?) - on FDR's use of personal envoys to Europe, Africa, Middle East, USSR - to report on conditions on the ground. The Nazis looted Europe, expelled/killed Jews & political/social undesirables - but destroyed their economy in the process. & threw away manpower they couldn't replace.
Japan stripped their conquests of industrial equipment, POL, raw materials, crops, labor - & left populations to starve, & brutalized foreigners & natives, military & civilian. Their overseas efforts never paid off either, & their logistics were too weak to win a war. All this is in hindsight - @ the time, both sets (& Italy & other Axis partners) looked like existential threats, & we treated them as such.
Americans tend to forget all other nations, you would think for example there were no British or Canadians at Normandy on Dday, despite the British troops alone outnumbering our American 'friends', Canada usually gets even less mention than the British!
Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88
Yah, that doesn't jibe with numbers I've seen. See D-Day by the Numbers Charting and Graphing WWII Data, A Lesson Plan from The Department of Education of The National D-Day Museum, New Orleans, LA, USA www.ddaymuseum.org :
"2. Use these statistics from June 6, 1944—D-Day—to fill in and label the percentages of each country’s military force in Normandy on the pie chart. Then answer the questions below.
"D-Day Combatants
Country # of Soldiers on D-Day Percentage
*United States 95,000 34%
*Great Britain 60,000 21%
*Canada 20,000 7%
Germany 105,000 38%
*Allies"
It's an interesting exercise, looking @ size of the US military from 1939 to 1945 by year; number & % of combatants @ Normandy on D-Day; casualties WWII, military v. civilian, % of pre-war population for USSR, Germany, France, US, GB
Well, given easthome's sneering contempt, I wouldn't be surprised if he just blithely dismissed your American source out of hand.
So here's a British source, which also demonstrates that he's wrong.
Quote:
How many Allied troops were involved in D-Day?
On D-Day, the Allies landed around 156,000 troops in Normandy. The American forces landed numbered 73,000: 23,250 on Utah Beach, 34,250 on Omaha Beach, and 15,500 airborne troops. In the British and Canadian sector, 83,115 troops were landed (61,715 of them British): 24,970 on Gold Beach, 21,400 on Juno Beach, 28,845 on Sword Beach, and 7900 airborne troops.
Note:
I post this only in the interest of historical accuracy, not out of any sense that the United States was somehow superior for supplying more forces for this particular operation. I hold our British friends (no quotes, because I actually mean it) in high esteem, and I do not hold the the existence of a few ignorant and angry individuals against a people as a whole.
Trump has resurrected America First as a doctrine. Some say the term is ugly, mostly relating to WW2 and the desire to stay out of it. My question is how would the war have turned out if indeed America had stayed out? I am not at all sure that Germany would have prevailed.
An answer to this question can be found in the book by Philip K Dick entitled "Man in the High Castle" .
For those who must have their knowledge in video form Amazon is presenting a decent series based on the book called "The Man in the High Castle. The fictional America in 1962 plays the Horst Wessel East of the Mississippi, and is taking lessons in Japanese west of the Rocky Mountains.
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