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Old 01-16-2020, 11:51 AM
 
9,984 posts, read 10,562,325 times
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What a politician personality thought was fair to black people and what he thought was the federal government's responsibility to address it didn't necessarily come from the same place. For instance Goldwater thought Civil Rights was federal Government over reach but he personality, and forcefully integrated the White House cafeteria so his personal aid ,who was black could eat there.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:54 AM
 
9,722 posts, read 9,707,275 times
Reputation: 30612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
The Brown decision came during the Eisenhower administration. It just came from the Supreme Court rather than Congress. Eisenhower enforced it with armed soldiers

LBJ would have had great difficulty passing the Civil Rights Act were it not for GOP support. Those smirking bubbas like Orville Faubus and George Wallace were Democrats. The southern Democrats were the biggest impediment to Civil Rights.

And Affirmative Action is a HUGE boon to Civil Rights, depending on your perspective. That came to fruition under Nixon.

So no, the assertion is quite true.

Don't get me wrong. LBJ deserves a huge amount of credit. And he was thanked by having numerous urban riots on his watch.
Affirmative Action occurred during the time Nixon was President. I challenge you to search the historical record and find a place where he encouraged or supported it.

Eisenhower privately expressed his displeasure after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Brown in Brown v. the Board of Education. He felt that appointing Chief Justice Earl Warren who was able to get the court to support this decision unanimously was a huge mistake on his part.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-chief/554045/

Eisenhower had a constitutional duty to enforce the integration of Central High in Little Rock. I give credit where it is due, but a chief executive's very job includes "taking care that the laws be faithfully executed". In essence, Eisenhower did his job and that's it.

The republicans helped pass the civil rights legislation, but there is very little in the historical record to show anything approaching the effort the democrats made to achieve civil rights for African Americans.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:16 PM
 
21,311 posts, read 11,974,299 times
Reputation: 21762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
The Brown decision came during the Eisenhower administration. It just came from the Supreme Court rather than Congress. Eisenhower enforced it with armed soldiers

LBJ would have had great difficulty passing the Civil Rights Act were it not for GOP support. Those smirking bubbas like Orville Faubus and George Wallace were Democrats. The southern Democrats were the biggest impediment to Civil Rights.

And Affirmative Action is a HUGE boon to Civil Rights, depending on your perspective. That came to fruition under Nixon.

So no, the assertion is quite true.

Don't get me wrong. LBJ deserves a huge amount of credit. And he was thanked by having numerous urban riots on his watch.

This is just plain English. The assertion was:


Quote:
Most of the major, landmark advances in civil rights issues came during GOP administrations.

That assertion was not about proportion of support, it was not about "coming to fruition."


I can tell you that Brown v Board of Topeka did squat for me when my mother took me to enroll in the elementary school closest to my house--which happened to be a white school. I still very clearly recall the principal telling my my mother in 1958, "Oooooh, noooo! You must take him to Carver!"


The concept that Supreme Court decisions were necessarily effective upon local court jurisdictions was not fully accepted in the South until the mid sixties. Local courts routinely ignored the Supreme Court until then, unless African-Americans put the matter on television.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:18 PM
 
18,658 posts, read 5,068,813 times
Reputation: 12798
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I suspect the answer is yes.

The GOP % voting yes for the Civil Rights Act far surpassed the Democrats. Democrats first JFK supporter was Segregationist Alabama gov Patterson who did all in his power to empower what happened in Anniston.

JFK wanted the issue to go away. RFK did also. Hoover was as bad as any of the mob attacking at Anniston. That empowered the KKK.

Nixon was hardly conservative, and IMO, would have taken a more no non-sense approach with Southern politicians who were in bed with the KKK.I suspect, upon Wallace coming in, had he blocked the U of A' doors during a Nixon administration, he would have been taken away by the National Guard.
Fake news and history rewriting again, Bob.

Those Civil Rights advances......first of all, were 70 years or 100 years after they were won due to "conservative" and "moral majority" (white supremacy) forces.

JFK was the one who pushed them forward and LBJ felt it his duty to implement them.

Oh, BTW, they happened in the early 1960's. Considering that JFK was killed in 1963 (perhaps partially for this exact issue!), the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964. Not much delay there.

If you stop with your attributions to political parties and use geography instead you will likely come to a better conclusion. The "abolitionists" were always from the North and Midwest and the "White Supremacy" crew was always stronger in the former Slave states.

Actual question. How many thousands of pages (books) have you read about LBJ and about the Civil Rights movement....??? For many years I avoided reading about LBJ because I lived through the period but I finally took up the cause.

Nothing much has changed. Even as we speak "conservatives" have made many successful attempts to roll back the Voting Rights Act....even including the SCOTUS. They actually did it...rolled it back.

You can guess which of the CURRENT political parties has pushed these efforts.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:24 PM
 
18,658 posts, read 5,068,813 times
Reputation: 12798
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I suspect the answer is yes.

The GOP % voting yes for the Civil Rights Act far surpassed the Democrats. Democrats first JFK supporter was Segregationist Alabama gov Patterson who did all in his power to empower what happened in Anniston.

JFK wanted the issue to go away. RFK did also. Hoover was as bad as any of the mob attacking at Anniston. That empowered the KKK.

Nixon was hardly conservative, and IMO, would have taken a more no non-sense approach with Southern politicians who were in bed with the KKK.I suspect, upon Wallace coming in, had he blocked the U of A' doors during a Nixon administration, he would have been taken away by the National Guard.
Fake news and history rewriting again, Bob.

Those Civil Rights advances......first of all, were 70 years or 100 years after they were won due to "conservative" and "moral majority" (white supremacy) forces.

JFK was the one who pushed them forward and LBJ felt it his duty to implement them.

Oh, BTW, they happened in the early 1960's. Considering that JFK was killed in 1963 (perhaps partially for this exact issue!), the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964. Not much delay there.

If you stop with your attributions to political parties and use geography instead you will likely come to a better conclusion. The "abolitionists" were always from the North and Midwest and the "White Supremacy" crew was always stronger in the former Slave states.

Actual question. How many thousands of pages (books) have you read about LBJ and about the Civil Rights movement....??? For many years I avoided reading about LBJ because I lived through the period but I finally took up the cause.

Nothing much has changed. Even as we speak "conservatives" have made many successful attempts to roll back the Voting Rights Act....even including the SCOTUS. They actually did it...rolled it back.

You can guess which of the CURRENT political parties has pushed these efforts.


Nixons famous "Southern Strategy" was based on Racism.

"In American politics, the Southern strategy was a Republican Party electoral strategy to increase political support among white voters in the South by appealing to racism against African Americans"

How the heck can you even suggest a Man who won office on Racism....would have countered it quicker?
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Old 01-16-2020, 03:34 PM
 
12,343 posts, read 17,907,189 times
Reputation: 6354
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Affirmative Action occurred during the time Nixon was President. I challenge you to search the historical record and find a place where he encouraged or supported it.

Eisenhower privately expressed his displeasure after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Brown in Brown v. the Board of Education. He felt that appointing Chief Justice Earl Warren who was able to get the court to support this decision unanimously was a huge mistake on his part.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-chief/554045/

Eisenhower had a constitutional duty to enforce the integration of Central High in Little Rock. I give credit where it is due, but a chief executive's very job includes "taking care that the laws be faithfully executed". In essence, Eisenhower did his job and that's it.

The republicans helped pass the civil rights legislation, but there is very little in the historical record to show anything approaching the effort the democrats made to achieve civil rights for African Americans.
Yea you're right. They were not standing in the school entrances blocking black students.


As for Eisenhower, EVERY President was expressing displeasure. Unless you are going to claim FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, and RMN actually knew any black people beyond a few servants. Eisenhower sent troops into the South. Wow, all you can do is credit him with doing his job? Is that not what he was supposed to do?

Sorry, but this Democrats are angelic and good while Republicans are evil and nefarious is sophomoric thinking exemplified.
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Old 01-16-2020, 03:37 PM
 
12,343 posts, read 17,907,189 times
Reputation: 6354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
This is just plain English. The assertion was:





That assertion was not about proportion of support, it was not about "coming to fruition."


I can tell you that Brown v Board of Topeka did squat for me when my mother took me to enroll in the elementary school closest to my house--which happened to be a white school. I still very clearly recall the principal telling my my mother in 1958, "Oooooh, noooo! You must take him to Carver!"


The concept that Supreme Court decisions were necessarily effective upon local court jurisdictions was not fully accepted in the South until the mid sixties. Local courts routinely ignored the Supreme Court until then, unless African-Americans put the matter on television.

Misread- sorry.

Progress is painful, as much as we wish the opposite.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:54 PM
 
20,512 posts, read 8,153,641 times
Reputation: 9142
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
They were already at risk. Do you care as much about children being at risk as you do seeing it?

I care more about NOT increasing their risk.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:57 PM
 
20,512 posts, read 8,153,641 times
Reputation: 9142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
The Brown decision came during the Eisenhower administration. It just came from the Supreme Court rather than Congress. Eisenhower enforced it with armed soldiers

LBJ would have had great difficulty passing the Civil Rights Act were it not for GOP support. Those smirking bubbas like Orville Faubus and George Wallace were Democrats. The southern Democrats were the biggest impediment to Civil Rights.

.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:03 PM
 
20,512 posts, read 8,153,641 times
Reputation: 9142
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post

Actual question. How many thousands of pages (books) have you read about LBJ and about the Civil Rights movement....??? For many years I avoided reading about LBJ because I lived through the period but I finally took up the cause.
.
Many. Lived 17 years by Nashville. Well aware of its critical role in the movement. As for books, I am waiting for my order of The Children to arrive via Amazon.

James Lawson, Diane Nash, Ben West..well versed in their intertwined histories.
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