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I completely disagree with this. In my experience in over a dozen school districts, teachers were able to teach whatever they wanted within a U.S. History or World History class. I've seen a history teacher spend a good bit of time on works of art in a world history class. I've seen high school history teachers go into a lot of detail about the history of the Soviet Union in a world history class. I thought it would've been more appropriate for a college course on the history of the Soviet Union. I've seen a teacher show over 50-60 movies in a history class. What didn't get covered because students were watching Saving Private Ryan and The Longest Day?
I taught about the history of television and music in the 1950s in a U.S. History class. Nobody was saying that the history of television in the 1950s should or shouldn't be taught in a U.S. History class.
What you're describing isn't operative everywhere. Many systems have adopted pacing guides that detail what will be taught on a specific day of the school year. Example: December 3rd: Page 293-League of Nations, with details of what should be presented.
And yes, if you're observed and you're not right there it will be noted.
What you're describing isn't operative everywhere. Many systems have adopted pacing guides that detail what will be taught on a specific day of the school year. Example: December 3rd: Page 293-League of Nations, with details of what should be presented.
And yes, if you're observed and you're not right there it will be noted.
Yes, I remember you've mentioned this before. This would be a drastic culture shock for many teachers in PA. It wouldn't necessarily be bad, since it would keep teachers on track who have trouble with that or are lazy.
Where it would hurt is teachers who like to use "teachable moments" such as talking about current events such as the war in Ukraine or the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Yes, I remember you've mentioned this before. This would be a drastic culture shock for many teachers in PA. It wouldn't necessarily be bad, since it would keep teachers on track who have trouble with that or are lazy.
Where it would hurt is teachers who like to use "teachable moments" such as talking about current events such as the war in Ukraine or the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Yep, that has disrupted teachers across the disciplines.
Schools seem quite selective of what is taught and what isn't. The holocaust is at least recognized, how many in school ever heard of the holodomor perpetrated by Stalin in which millions of Ukrainians were deliberately starved to death? I've often wondered if that was because the US allied itself with Stalin in WW II or is there some other reason?
The Ukrainians died not because they were Ukrainians - and not because they were intentionally starved.
It was a result of stupid ignorant policies and nearly criminal eagerness to get promotions and medals, where the local leaders in Ukraine were trying to please the central authorities in Moscow by reporting how much agricultural products they produced for the whole country and for export sale.
Soviet Russia forced individual farmers into collective farms - fast and furious - against their will.
The theory Lenin promoted that as far as the country has individual farmers - it will be always be the source of private property, free market and capitalism - which he tried hard to eliminate to build ”socialism”
(On a side note, ironically Lenin actually was trying to do what we have now here in US - create industrial type farming - very easy to nationalize)
The bureaucracy and local politicians were eager to report how successful they are at eliminating individual farmers and creating collective farms. Those who resisted - with their whole families were stripped of their land and sent into exile in Siberia and Russian Pacific with the blessings of central authorities.
They needed to populate the vast remote territories:win-win.
The agricultural production failed miserably, there was nothing to send for export or to the urban population.
The Russia was still recovering from the World War I, the revolution and 5 years of civil war.
Russia was internationally isolated, only a few countries even traded with them; the US did not recognize Soviet Russia until 1933.
They were rebuilding industries and had a high urban population and had to sell grain to buy machinery for factories and defense.
So everything was taken from rural population where they could get agricultural products - and that was in Ukraine - the so called ”bread basket “ of Russia.
Doubt Stalin was even aware what was going on on local level: they obviously did not put it on front pages of their newspapers.
Of course it is easier to blame Stalin for crimes - simpler - where in facts crimes were committed by multiple ignorant local politicians who were trying to outdo each other in how much the their collective farms produced and how much “extra” the sent “for the whole country” and too afraid to show the result of their ineffective and dangerous local policies
And as everything is turned into an anti Russian propaganda that it was “intentional “ and directed at Ukrainians - the same was happening everywhere - where agriculture was the main resource\
(On another side note, just to show how little we know of Russia - we can’t even get the name of the country right: in English the name of the country”Russia” - for us means belonging to Russian ethnicity as we only have 1 word, where we actually need 2 different words - each with the different meaning explained below.
In Russia the name of the country is spelled and sounds completely different in comparison to ethnicity - Rossiya - or something like that - is the name of the country - it means geographical location where people of more than 100 nationalities live.
Russian ethnicity is just one of them - and in parts of the country they are the minority - pronounced “Ruskii” or something like that which translates as Russian in English.
So basically out of our ignorance we can’t even get the country’s name right and are calling all these 100 nationalities as they are all of the same Russian ethnicity living in “Russia”)
Last edited by L00k4ward; 09-26-2022 at 06:16 AM..
The Ukrainians died not because they were Ukrainians - and not because they were intentionally starved.
It was a result of stupid ignorant policies and nearly criminal eagerness to get promotions and medals, where the local leaders in Ukraine were trying to please the central authorities in Moscow by reporting how much agricultural products they produced for the whole country and for export sale.
Soviet Russia forced individual farmers into collective farms - fast and furious - against their will.
The theory Lenin promoted that as far as the country has individual farmers - it will be always be the source of private property, free market and capitalism - which he tried hard to eliminate to build ”socialism”
(On a side note, ironically Lenin actually was trying to do what we have now here in US - create industrial type farming - very easy to nationalize)
The bureaucracy and local politicians were eager to report how successful they are at eliminating individual farmers and creating collective farms. Those who resisted - with their whole families were stripped of their land and sent into exile in Siberia and Russian Pacific with the blessings of central authorities.
They needed to populate the vast remote territories:win-win.
The agricultural production failed miserably, there was nothing to send for export or to the urban population.
The Russia was still recovering from the World War I, the revolution and 5 years of civil war.
Russia was internationally isolated, only a few countries even traded with them; the US did not recognize Soviet Russia until 1933.
They were rebuilding industries and had a high urban population and had to sell grain to buy machinery for factories and defense.
So everything was taken from rural population where they could get agricultural products - and that was in Ukraine - the so called ”bread basket “ of Russia.
Doubt Stalin was even aware what was going on on local level: they obviously did not put it on front pages of their newspapers.
Of course it is easier to blame Stalin for crimes - simpler - where in facts crimes were committed by multiple ignorant local politicians who were trying to outdo each other in how much the their collective farms produced and how much “extra” the sent “for the whole country” and too afraid to show the result of their ineffective and dangerous local policies
And as everything is turned into an anti Russian propaganda that it was “intentional “ and directed at Ukrainians - the same was happening everywhere - where agriculture was the main resource\
(On another side note, just to show how little we know of Russia - we can’t even get the name of the country right: in English the name of the country”Russia” - for us means belonging to Russian ethnicity as we only have 1 word, where we actually need 2 different words - each with the different meaning explained below.
In Russia the name of the country is spelled and sounds completely different in comparison to ethnicity - Rossiya - or something like that - is the name of the country - it means geographical location where people of more than 100 nationalities live.
Russian ethnicity is just one of them - and in parts of the country they are the minority - pronounced “Ruskii” or something like that which translates as Russian in English.
So basically out of our ignorance we can’t even get the country’s name right and are calling all these 100 nationalities as they are all of the same Russian ethnicity living in “Russia”)
While you're correct a lot about things, there's something more than bad policy at play - complete disregard for human life. Policy sounds nice and clean, but in practice it's simply a decision of who to aim your guns at and when to pull the trigger. When you talk about 'eliminating farmers' then that did indeed mean eliminating those who weren't eager to give up everything they owned. And of course even those that did cooperate would always be suspicious as potential enemies and thus could easily end up in a prison basement at any time.
The early Soviet Union was a prime example of what happens when the shots are called by a small cadre of leaders with no practical experience of governance or management, but certainly more than enough self-confidence and will to wield power to make up for it. Lenin, Stalin and Co. certainly knew that many, many people were dying as a result of their actions. They just plain didn't care. They were either enemies or 'eggs' that needed to be cracked to make an omelet. The fact that the practical implementation was left to brutish henchmen in the field and ambitious bureaucrats in subordinate departments doesn't absolve the leadership of responsibility.
Russia has a long history, going back at least until Medieval times, of its abuse in the Ukraine. And its abuse of history in dealing with the Ukraine. There is ample research material.
They have to go through who knows how many hundreds of years of history etc in 6 months or so
All I remember from my HS US history course was the exhaustive reading required. I was so busy trying to keep up with the assignments (it was a very thick book), I wasn't able to retain anything long-term. I'm only left with the overall impression of how down and dirty the campaigning was for elections back in the 1800's. At every turn, really. Mudslinging and whatnot. No recollection of any coverage of Native American issues.
My brother, when he saw the history book remarked on how it was considered to be a radical book. He was surprised that was my textbook. But I don't remember anything of a radical nature. Unfortunately I no longer have the book, so I can't go back and look through it to see how it treated Native American and African American issues. Not to mention the takeover of Hawaii and California.
But if US history is such a grind with only a little over 300 years of history, going back to the first colonies, I can't imagine how students in countries like the UK manage. Probably history is a year-long course, or maybe spread out over 2 years.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-01-2022 at 07:30 PM..
The average person thinks oh there was a gas chamber and they gassed in what was a shower and it was bad Hitler was evil totalitarian he was psycho That’s all true but they narrowly wrap that up as Holocaust and it stops there.
A lot of ignored chapters and misinformation …
First off …, the shootings of Jews in Ukraine and Lithuania were done by local nationalists who used propaganda that all Jews were responsible for Soviet policies. Babi Yar and Riga massacres and Vilnius ones preceded Pearl Harbor and the Wannsee conference and the reason they Nazis even searched for gas methods of genocide was to keep the events of murder more contained so more could die faster without disruption from collaborators chickening out over the smell and intimacy of dead people because unlike Babi Yar, not every city and town has a forest with a ravine to throw 33,000 corpses at a time
The killing squads in Ukraine and Latvia and Lithuania were all from volunteers of local willing participants with or without Hitler
The Romania Antonescu willingly murdered Jews and hanged them like meat packs in a market …. Hundreds of thousands of them
Polish locals rounded up all the Jews in their town and burned them
Alive in a barn
A Jewish shop keeper in L’vov my grandma knew, kind man, was forced head down in a toilet and the toilet was flushed in his face with feces in it till he drowned
Switzerland angrily reached out to Hitler on own that they are frustrated that Jews are refugee status trying to get into Switzerland can they like stamp J on their visas so they know who not to take?
In Poland AFTER Hitler was dead, the Kielce Pogrom involved 40 Jews shot dead in a building , tortured even by the police who were called for help and they were relieved when after a delayed showing up, security came to help … but they came to kill more of the Jews not to help
Jews were hated beyond Hitler, hated for existing, hated blindly
Sadly, that’s a well-known fact. There are plenty of WWII photos showing Jews being murdered in broad daylight. I’m not aware of anyone (other than fringe Holocaust deniers) denying this.
All I remember from my HS US history course was the exhaustive reading required. I was so busy trying to keep up with the assignments (it was a very thick book), I wasn't able to retain anything long-term. I'm only left with the overall impression of how down and dirty the campaigning was for elections back in the 1800's. At every turn, really. Mudslinging and whatnot. No recollection of any coverage of Native American issues.
My brother, when he saw the history book remarked on how it was considered to be a radical book. He was surprised that was my textbook. But I don't remember anything of a radical nature. Unfortunately I no longer have the book, so I can't go back and look through it to see how it treated Native American and African American issues. Not to mention the takeover of Hawaii and California.
But if US history is such a grind with only a little over 300 years of history, going back to the first colonies, I can't imagine how students in countries like the UK manage. Probably history is a year-long course, or maybe spread out over 2 years.
So how are today's students going to learn much history when they don't have their own history book assigned to them and they don't have reading assignments? Many of today's teachers don't believe in lecturing, so worksheets, projects, and videos are the main ways students are supposed to learn. I've seen numerous instances where high school students are graded on coloring a worksheet.
history is full of mistery and unfair stuff actually..
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