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Can I ask you a serious question. Why so adamant about keeping illegal aliens here? What is the reason you will argue to no end for law breakers?
Can I ask you a question - why so much hatred? Why are you so mean-spirited and have such a lack of human empathy about this issue? I’m not adamant about keeping them here, I’m just about finding a realistic solution to a complex problem.
Here is a study of the costs vs benefits. They are a net fiscal loss to our society not to mention all the things that Max and I both mentioned such as loss of jobs, reduced wages, etc. for Americans. We have to enforce all of our laws or our country descends into chaos. Costs of doing so is irrelevant.
Identity Loans and Identity Theft: Illegal Immigrants in a Restricted Labor Market
(and i thought this tid bit to be interesting)
"When American citizens commit identity theft, they usually do so in order to commit welfare fraud, financial fraud, or in order to sell identities to illegal immigrants either on their own or as part of a conspiracy that involves the immigrants themselves. For example, some of the instances of identity theft committed by U.S. citizens were committed to steal wages, create fake schools to supply “student” visas, marriage fraud, H1-B visa fraud, visa fraud and harboring, manufacturing and selling fraudulent identities, EB-5 visa fraud, defrauding migrant clients, bribery, and illegal issuing of driver’s licenses, among others. In many of these cases, immigrants would purchase the identities but U.S. citizen intermediaries initially stole them." (my emphasis)
So when we are looking at this, IRS: 1.2 Million Illegal Aliens Committed Identity Theft in FY 2017, "We identified 1,227,579 electronically filed tax returns, processed in FY 2017 through April 18, 2017, in which the Individual Taxpayer Identification Number on the return does not match the Social Security Number on the Form W-2," how can we differentiate between a u.s citizen who stole an identity or an illegal person who, purchased an identity?
And so, when we are looking at an article with a report that states $113 Billion a Year Drain on U.S. Taxpayer, how can any one be so sure, that isn't as the present, nut in the White House likes to say, fake news?
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 10-12-2018 at 01:58 PM..
I highly doubt illegal immigration is a source of workers for STEM jobs.
You're right, I'm almost sure, but as pointed out there is a slim chance that after having received the education and skills, they are allowed to stay here, thus, the u.s. looses economically and our loss is (other migrant friendly country) New Zealand, or Australia's (etc.) gain ...
btw: the reason for all of this ^^ is because while the present day administration was dolling out new policies, (not law) every one was like, yeah! yeah! give me more of that.
"Judging by the pronouncements from the White House, you might think most people don't realize how integral undocumented immigrants are to the U.S. economy. But in fact, polls suggest that Americans do understand this, and also don't believe that immigrants take their jobs. In a soon-to-be-published poll Cornell conducted in 2017, we asked New Yorkers, "How do you believe undocumented farmworkers impact local communities?""
_________
Do you have an answer on how to help keep us fed?
^^^ the new drain on the u.s. economy ... fewer people were opting to migrate to the u.s. during the years of Obama, because let's face it, there were no jobs. Now there are jobs, because there are no workers, not even American citizen workers. What, do you think a person working in a tech lab is going to leave it, to go pick fruit?
On top of that you have the law, not policy ... What is the reason you will argue to no end for law breakers?
"These treaties also prohibit countries from punishing refugees for entering illegally if their life or freedom was threatened at home. Despite the fact that our Constitution makes the rules in these treaties binding U.S. law, the Trump administration is treating asylum-seekers like criminals. When the U.S. government prosecutes or imprisons these asylum-seekers, it violates the rights protected in the two treaties that recognize the human right to seek asylum."
Can I ask you a question - why so much hatred? Why are you so mean-spirited and have such a lack of human empathy about this issue? I’m not adamant about keeping them here, I’m just about finding a realistic solution to a complex problem.
I know your remark above isn't addressed to me but hatred has nothing to do with objecting to illegal immigration and not wanting to reward those who have violated our immigration laws. It's not mean spirited either. IMO, those who defend illegal aliens have no human empathy for the rightful citizens of this country who have been negatively impacted by illegal immigration.
The realistic and right solution is to deport illegal aliens as they are found and remove all of the incentives for them to remain here and to continue to come here. There is nothing complex about it. That's what's right for the citizens of this country and in keeping with the rule of law.
I stopped reading your link when they called FAIR a hate group. There is nothing hateful about objecting to illegal immigration. FAIR has nothing against legal immigration in reasonable numbers. In the link I provided they explained how they arrived at their figures and numbers about illegal immigration.
I stopped reading your link when they called FAIR a hate group. There is nothing hateful about objecting to illegal immigration. FAIR has nothing against legal immigration in reasonable numbers. In the link I provided they explained how they arrived at their figures and numbers about illegal immigration.
It’s heavily biased and thus probably not a source to rely upon for your data.
It’s heavily biased and thus probably not a source to rely upon for your data.
I think this is the one he's talking about. I came across it in my searches ... The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers
"This amount includes expenditures for public education, medical care, justice enforcement initiatives, welfare programs and other miscellaneous costs. It also factors in the meager amount illegal aliens pay to the federal government in income, social security, Medicare and excise taxes."
Good instincts ... Federation for American Immigration Reform
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Biased against who? Facts can't be biased they are what they are.
You're right they can't be biased, however, they can be presented in such away, so as to sway any argument pro or con ... However, there is something that is very basic that I catch each and every time I look this stuff up ...
the complete fiscal impact of providing benefits to illegal aliens cannot be determined, since government revenues attributable to illegal aliens are unknown. Benefits for Illegal Aliens u.s. GAO, 1993
So it stands to reason, the fiscal burden, is an amount that cannot be determined, as well.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 10-12-2018 at 09:01 PM..
Reason: add link 2 to post
Can I ask you a question - why so much hatred? Why are you so mean-spirited and have such a lack of human empathy about this issue? I’m not adamant about keeping them here, I’m just about finding a realistic solution to a complex problem.
I believe your answer is disingenuous. The solutions you are offering are based on ignoring our laws and really basic principles in immigration. They broke the law, entered unvetted, without merit, don't meet the qualifications for legal immigration. Nobody should want strangers walking in the back door of their house, that's just weird and unsafe. I don't hate anyone, I love America, it's awesome, part of that is because we have great laws and we stick to them. Ignoring them starts to make us more like a corrupt third world country. No thanks. We can't take in all of the world's poor people, it simply doesn't make sense. People that are here and are educated and skilled should go back to their home country and try to make a difference there. To be honest you can keep ranting and raving about "immigration reform" (aka amnesty), we got fooled once, it's not going to happen again, ever.
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5% of u.s. workforce ...
