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My theory is that the large scale immigration of hispanics to California that has been going on since the 70s(yeah, its not like mexicans just broke the fence down recently) is very much like the large scale immigration of Italians and Irish to East coast cities in the early 20th century. Lets look at similarities.
Many Latino immigrants arrive in cities like Los Angeles not knowing English. This angers the "real" Americans. Go through a Latino neighborhood and you will see signs in Spanish, and hear people speaking Spanish.
When Italian immigrants arrived, they formed their own neighborhoods. Signs for Italian owned businesses were in Italian. Italian was commonly heard spoken in these neighborhoods.
A few bad apples have led to all Latino immigrants being portrayed as criminals. Example: The young black high school athlete who was tragically murdered by an alleged illegal. This tragedy has been shamelessly used as anti-immigrant propaganda. Not only is someones terrible death being used to further a groups agenda..but the finger is being pointed at the whole immigrant community instead of one rotten individual..
A few decades ago, Italians were stereotyped as criminals because of a small minority who were involved in a thing called the mafia. Much like the small minority of latinos involved with gangs.
The new generation of American's born to Italian immigrants grew up and became assimilated into American culture, speaking English and Italian.
Find me one Latino born and raised in America, born to immigrants even, who doesn't speak English.
Italians eventually assimilated completely into American culture, while still proudly holding their heritage close to heart. italian businesses even have the colors of the italian flag sometimes in their businesses.
They also formed an important part of the history and present of New York.
With that said, Latinos too are becoming more assimilated generation after generation. Latinos too are becoming productive American Citizens..Just like The children of Italian immigrants have in the past.
Its been done since this country started: immigration.
Latinos are just the latest wave. Why do people think they will not assimilate over time? Whats so different about Latinos compared to all the other people who immigrated here?
And yes...Latinos will have a lot of influence in cities like Los Angeles...just like Italian culture has a lot of influence on New York.
Yes they are the latest wave, they are escaping the same elements that other waves escaped from, they are assimilating in the same manner. It doesn't matter if they are illegal or legal.
Here is some more information on the Italian immigratation:
Quote:
The reasons for the Italian mass emigration
Italy never colonized parts of America as did Spain, France, and England. Instead, many Italians started coming to America in the 1880’s to escape from poverty at home.
Initially, most emigrants hailed from Northern Italy. However, as time passed, most emigrants came from the South. With this shift also came an increase in those leaving the nation. Between 1898 and 1914, approximately 750,000 Italians emigrated each year. From 1906 to 1915, as many as 2 million Italians emigrated. The reasons for the mass emigration of the Italians were many, and there were also differences in the reasons that made people emigrate from the south and north of Italy. The standard of living became worse in the whole of Italy between 1870 and 1900, especially in the countryside. Disease and starvation were the main causes of migration. Food had become the biggest cost for an Italian family. Many peasant families spent about 75% of their money on food. Despite the high cost, this food often did not contain enough nutrition to sustain a person (A. Lyttelton 1997, pp.238-240).
In the North, the population suffered from pellagra, a disease which often resulted in insanity and death, whereas in the South, fatal malaria plagued the nation’s residents. At first, malaria only struck in the coastal areas, but this changed as deforestation, erosion and flooding enabled the malaria to spread. The conditions which people endured in these areas were unbelievable as 2 million Italians died each year (Maldwin A. Jones, 1976, pp 193-216).
To make matters worse, the agricultural system of Italy was not modernised, and there was little hope of improving the situation. During this time, Italian agriculture was hurt by the increasing number of products from America that invaded Italian markets. The price of wheat and other products fell. There was no alternative than to emigrate. As the journey became easier, few people hesitated to leave their homeland
Quote:
Treatment by other Americans
Italians were treated with some respect but not much and formed their own communities.Italians were looked upon as different from the older generations of immigrants and were often viewed as people of lower class.By the early 1900’s many newspapers defined the Italian race as inferior and degraded, because they usually lived in the worst areas of the towns. They also aroused suspicion because of their attitude toward religion. Unlike the Irish who were also Catholic, Italians did not go to church. These are the main causes one can trace back to in order to understand why Italians were stereotyped as prone to crime.
Even today, Italian-Americans still have to fight bias, bigotry and defamation. Usually in American movies, Italians are painted as persons who use foul language, speak broken English, and think of nothing besides violence and crime. These films create a negative portrait of Italians, who are then treated with less respect by others.
74% of Americans believe that most Italian-Americans are in some way associated with organized crime. Movies such as Married to the Mob, My Cousin Vinny, The Freshman, Prizzi’s Honor and many more help to account for this prejudice.
Yet a recent FBI study found that fewer one-tenth of one percent of the 25 million Italian-Americans in the United States were associated with organized with crime (web source, attribution lost
The Italian-American mafia, at it's height, never numbered more than a few thousand members.
Gangs comprised of legal and illegal Hispanic immigrants, and even American-born Hispanics (Mexicans, El Salvadorians, etc -- these aren't White Argentines or Uruguyans) are in the size of small cities!
And their propensity for violence and disorder is beyond anything the Italian mafia could ever fathom. See, the Italian Gangsters may of shook down the local meat man for a 'protection tax,' but they kept the neighborhoods safe and free of petty crime.
This current generation of gang activity... these people fight each other over dilapidated neighborhoods and shoot up anyone who gets in their way (including families).
Sorry to say this, but there is certainly a difference between an Italian gangster in a suit and some MS-13 member leering and whistling at little children, covered in tattoos, and 'tagging' a side-walk fence.
Yes they are the latest wave, they are escaping the same elements that other waves escaped from, they are assimilating in the same manner. It doesn't matter if they are illegal or legal.
Here is some more information on the Italian immigratation:
The Italian-American mafia, at it's height, never numbered more than a few thousand members.
Gangs comprised of legal and illegal Hispanic immigrants, and even American-born Hispanics (Mexicans, El Salvadorians, etc -- these aren't White Argentines or Uruguyans) are in the size of small cities!
And their propensity for violence and disorder is beyond anything the Italian mafia could ever fathom. See, the Italian Gangsters may of shook down the local meat man for a 'protection tax,' but they kept the neighborhoods safe and free of petty crime.
This current generation of gang activity... these people fight each other over dilapidated neighborhoods and shoot up anyone who gets in their way (including families).
Sorry to say this, but there is certainly a difference between an Italian gangster in a suit and some MS-13 member leering and whistling at little children, covered in tattoos, and 'tagging' a side-walk fence.
I would propose they are the same just separated by time. Take the increase in population, technology, guns and we have the same thing.
The Italian-American mafia, at it's height, never numbered more than a few thousand members.
Gangs comprised of legal and illegal Hispanic immigrants, and even American-born Hispanics (Mexicans, El Salvadorians, etc -- these aren't White Argentines or Uruguyans) are in the size of small cities!
And their propensity for violence and disorder is beyond anything the Italian mafia could ever fathom. See, the Italian Gangsters may of shook down the local meat man for a 'protection tax,' but they kept the neighborhoods safe and free of petty crime.
This current generation of gang activity... these people fight each other over dilapidated neighborhoods and shoot up anyone who gets in their way (including families).
Sorry to say this, but there is certainly a difference between an Italian gangster in a suit and some MS-13 member leering and whistling at little children, covered in tattoos, and 'tagging' a side-walk fence.
You are naive if you think the mafia is all sophisticated men wearing suits and talking about honor like in the movies. Its not the godfather. THere was also a lot of street punks in those days too. But it wasn't all the immigrants..it was a small percentage.
Just like theres a small percentage of good ol' Americans, born and raised of anglo ancestry who are criminals.
Do you honestly believe gang culture was immigrated to America? It was born in a hotbed of racism and poverty in America's own inner cities. It was here to greet the immigrants who have nothing to their name. Treated like sub-humans in their country and this one, a few of them might get tempted to do something pointless and stupid like joining a gang.
But people like you seem convinced the problem lies within the race, not the legal status or conditions in which they live.
I would propose they are the same just separated by time. Take the increase in population, technology, guns and we have the same thing.
and most importantly the burgeoning drug trade.
Before the 80s, Chicano gangs in LA were relatively harmless. Less dangerous than the Mafia even.
They were little punks trying to act tough, like the greaser characters in movies of the day.
Add crack to the equation, easy access to bigger guns, and the whole innocence of the gangs was lost. It became an urban environment far worse than anything pervious immigrants had to move into.
It has nothing to do with having a spanish last name, or not being from europe.
Mexicans and Blacks just happened to be the lower class when disasters like the crack epedemic hit.
It COULD be, and in a few cases, this may be all there is to it. true.
But there are a lot of differences, despite your analogy. The immigrants who came here decades ago (LEGALLY, I might add) were 'taunted', pushed, and 'pressured' into assimilating. There was a powerful stigma at work, to shed one's 'foreign' ways, and become Americans, and the quicker the better. This was ALSO true of the MEXICANS who arrived here in the US, during that era. Often times, the biggest "patriot" in the neighborhood was the old 'foreigner' down the street with the HUGE American flag on his porch on the Fourth of July. Mexican-Americans historically have had a HIGH rate of military service in the US..higher even than our 'norm". Similar stories could be told of ALL groups, in that time in history. "Becoming American" was a precious prize worth striving for.,,,for ALL immigrants, "brown" or not. People went out of their way to 'show' that they were now "members" of ttheir new society. It was 'worth it' to them, to make that special effort.
Today, the immigrants have changed. PART of that change has been in reaction to the change that has taken place HERE. No longer do we "push" assimilation...that's too 'intrusive'. People should be able to 'celebrate their cultures' we believe...no matter WHAT those cultures are. We have no RIGHT (we feel) to ask them to "change"..that would be 'imposing upon them". Indeed, plenty of us (check out this forum) don't even think we should ask them to be LEGAL....even ILLEGAL people, we're told, are still 'good'...as good as you, or me, or anyone else. NO ONE, we're told, has a right to 'pass judgement'.
With this in mind, it should be no surprise that the "new" illegal immigrant 'crowd' (now numbering in the MULTIPLE MILLIONS) see little incentive to assimilate...."assimilate to WHAT?" they might ask. Apparently, the AMERICANS don't care, so why should "we"?...and reading over many posts on this forum, I'd have to say they're probably right.
Modern illegal immigration has been reduced to a simple economic move. There's no emotional "Statue of Liberty" moment...no "Breath of Freedom" upon arrival here...it's seen as little different from moving across a state line. And no 'gratitude' is involved, either, because "we" no longer EXPECT it. We've pretty well told the whole world that THEY (whoever they are) have as much right to be here as WE do...legal or not. So no gratitude, and no 'appreciation'....and no assimilation, is neccessary.
Those who WANT to assimilate, for personal reasons, are free to do so..and many do. But it's not 'pushed', nor is it even ENCOURAGED.
BIG difference in today's illegal immigration, and past LEGAL immigration. And by the way, I have a large number of "brown" family members who agree. "Brown" immigrants may infuriate SOME Americans, but ILLEGAL ones infuriate a lot MORE....in my experience.
Besides; your comment that I bolded is an insult to legal immigrants------including 'Hispanics'.
I don't see it that way, when talking in this context. We are discussing waves of immigration you can remove the word "illegals" and many would feel the same way about present day Mexican "legal" immigrants as they did about Italians, and the Irish when they arrived in their time.
It COULD be, and in a few cases, this may be all there is to it. true.
But there are a lot of differences, despite your analogy. The immigrants who came here decades ago (LEGALLY, I might add) were 'taunted', pushed, and 'pressured' into assimilating. There was a powerful stigma at work, to shed one's 'foreign' ways, and become Americans, and the quicker the better. This was ALSO true of the MEXICANS who arrived here in the US, during that era. Often times, the biggest "patriot" in the neighborhood was the old 'foreigner' down the street with the HUGE American flag on his porch on the Fourth of July. Mexican-Americans historically have had a HIGH rate of military service in the US..higher even than our 'norm". Similar stories could be told of ALL groups, in that time in history. "Becoming American" was a precious prize worth striving for.,,,for ALL immigrants, "brown" or not. People went out of their way to 'show' that they were now "members" of ttheir new society. It was 'worth it' to them, to make that special effort.
Today, the immigrants have changed. PART of that change has been in reaction to the change that has taken place HERE. No longer do we "push" assimilation...that's too 'intrusive'. People should be able to 'celebrate their cultures' we believe...no matter WHAT those cultures are. We have no RIGHT (we feel) to ask them to "change"..that would be 'imposing upon them". Indeed, plenty of us (check out this forum) don't even think we should ask them to be LEGAL....even ILLEGAL people, we're told, are still 'good'...as good as you, or me, or anyone else. NO ONE, we're told, has a right to 'pass judgement'.
With this in mind, it should be no surprise that the "new" illegal immigrant 'crowd' (now numbering in the MULTIPLE MILLIONS) see little incentive to assimilate...."assimilate to WHAT?" they might ask. Apparently, the AMERICANS don't care, so why should "we"?...and reading over many posts on this forum, I'd have to say they're probably right.
Modern illegal immigration has been reduced to a simple economic move. There's no emotional "Statue of Liberty" moment...no "Breath of Freedom" upon arrival here...it's seen as little different from moving across a state line. And no 'gratitude' is involved, either, because "we" no longer EXPECT it. We've pretty well told the whole world that THEY (whoever they are) have as much right to be here as WE do...legal or not. So no gratitude, and no 'appreciation'....and no assimilation, is neccessary.
Those who WANT to assimilate, for personal reasons, are free to do so..and many do. But it's not 'pushed', nor is it even ENCOURAGED.
BIG difference in today's illegal immigration, and past LEGAL immigration. And by the way, I have a large number of "brown" family members who agree. "Brown" immigrants may infuriate SOME Americans, but ILLEGAL ones infuriate a lot MORE....in my experience.
Be careful there; macmeal, someone may accuse you of being anti illegal immigrant------or, at least anti 'Hispanic'.
Needless you say; I agree with your position
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