California would be MUCH worse off without illegal aliens (Reagan, polls, biased)

[chicagonut]

Originally Posted by monkey cabal

Is this true? In a post above it said illegal gardeners make $30 per hour. That doesn’t sound cheap to me. Fact is, in many low-skilled jobs illegals make pretty close to minimum wage. Problem is, we can’t find U.S. citizens willing to fill these same minimum wage jobs.


Very true. Our gov’t purposely doesn’t enforce immigrations laws because we NEED illegal aliens.

If this is really about the employers not being able to find Americans for jobs at a fair wage then why do they hire illegal aliens rather that using visas to get LEGAL immigrants to come for those jobs? That is why your argument lacks merit. The truth is that illegal aliens work for less than even legal immigrants. It is all about money, profit, greed and corruption. Of which I guess you don't have a problem with.

[Kele]

Originally Posted by monkey cabal

But the reason we enjoy the fruits of their cheap labor is *because* they break immigration laws. If we had to wait years for them to wade through our immigration process before relying on them to pick fruit/mow lawns/build your patio deck, then their wages would be much higher.

The cheap labor provided by illegals contributes toward a better life for your children and their children.

Let me see if I get what you're saying here:

It's okay for a certain segment of the population to break the law as long as it directly benefits...YOU.

You also believe that it is entirely ethical to exploit people based upon their geographic origin by paying them slave wages that citizens would not work for, to deny them the benefits that go along with legal gainful employment, and to force American taxpayers to supplement those slave wages in the form of emergency room care, food and housing supplementation, a free education for their children, and higher crime rates due to an inordinately steep high school drop-out rate and a propensity to engage in gang activity.

Got it.

While we're at it---California had a population of 37,000,000 people (give or take) as of September 2008. Approximately 12.2% of California's citizen workers are unemployed. That means that 4,514,000 American citizens in California are out of work.

Yet you think it is entirely appropriate to continue to allow illegal workers to drive the wage market into the ground--making jobs completely inaccessible to American citizens who cannot afford to work for $6.00 an hour. Who do you think did this work before the glut of illegal aliens showed up?

Furthermore, the vast majority of Americans are NOT hiring illegal aliens to build decks, mow lawns, or babysit their children. Additionally, those illegal aliens who work in the farm industry make up approximately 2% of the entire crop of illegal immigrants coming into this country in flagrant violation of U.S. sovereign law.

Sometimes I just can't believe some of the apologist crap I read in this forum

[chicagonut]

Originally Posted by Kele

Let me see if I get what you're saying here:

It's okay for a certain segment of the population to break the law as long as it directly benefits...YOU.

You also believe that it is entirely ethical to exploit people based upon their geographic origin by paying them slave wages that citizens would not work for, to deny them the benefits that go along with legal gainful employment, and to force American taxpayers to supplement those slave wages in the form of emergency room care, food and housing supplementation, a free education for their children, and higher crime rates due to an inordinately steep high school drop-out rate and a propensity to engage in gang activity.

Got it.

While we're at it---California had a population of 37,000,000 people (give or take) as of September 2008. Approximately 12.2% of California's citizen workers are unemployed. That means that 4,514,000 American citizens in California are out of work.

Yet you think it is entirely appropriate to continue to allow illegal workers to drive the wage market into the ground--making jobs completely inaccessible to American citizens who cannot afford to work for $6.00 an hour. Who do you think did this work before the glut of illegal aliens showed up?

Furthermore, the vast majority of Americans are NOT hiring illegal aliens to build decks, mow lawns, or babysit their children. Additionally, those illegal aliens who work in the farm industry make up approximately 2% of the entire crop of illegal immigrants coming into this country in flagrant violation of U.S. sovereign law.

Sometimes I just can't believe some of the apologist crap I read in this forum

I totally agree and you nailed it in everyway. I can't believe there are American citizens like this who believe that corruption is ok just as long as it is for profit. The only ones profiting from illegal immigration are the crooked employers not your everyday American. They are paying through the nose in everyway.

[Kele]

Originally Posted by monkey cabal

As mentioned above in the answer to Az-bear, illegal aliens are here illegally because of a body of immigration laws that our gov't cannot enforce because it would cause entire U.S. industries to collapse.

Instead of trying to enforce immigration laws, maybe we should loosen them up and welcome in these hard working citizens.

Are you kidding me?

28,885,673 Americans are out of work.

We don't need illegal workers.

We need employers willing to pay a living wage so that we can put hard working AMERICAN citizens back to work.

I would like to see some credible statistics cited to back up your outrageous claims that the American industrial structure would collapse without illegal workers.

American Apparel will fire 1800 illegal workers: (Thank you IRS)

American Apparel will fire 1800 undocumented workers | Los Angeles Metblogs

This in addition to the numerous raids on meat and poultry plants which subsequently had more citizens and legal workers lining up to replace the illegal aliens than empty job positions.

What was the outcome? Meat packing plants had to stop paying slave wages and offer competitive salary packages to their employees. This in turn boosted employee income, enabling them to contribute to the economy and the consumer market--rather than augmenting the $320,845,178,782.00 that illegal workers have sent out of this country home to Latin America since 2001.

Please do some research before spewing out blanket statements that can be so easily rebutted.....

[monkey cabal]

Originally Posted by chicagonut

If this is really about the employers not being able to find Americans for jobs at a fair wage then why do they hire illegal aliens rather that using visas to get LEGAL immigrants to come for those jobs? That is why your argument lacks merit.

The reason we enjoy the fruits of their cheap labor is *because* they break immigration laws. If we had to wait years for them to wade through our immigration process to become LEGAL immigrants then their wages would be much higher to pick fruit/mow lawns/build your patio deck.

Originally Posted by chicagonut

The truth is that illegal aliens work for less than even legal immigrants.

I am glad to see that you agree with me on this. Now if you could somehow understand that illegals take jobs that most U.S. citizens would not consider taking. Maybe if you think about it for a while you will figure it out. Or maybe not.

Originally Posted by chicagonut

It is all about money, profit, greed and corruption.

Yes, the issue is about all those things. And also about laziness and pride too. There would not be an illegal immigration problem if there was an ample supply of hardworking U.S. citizens lined up to become fruit pickers, gardeners and entry level construction workers. As it is, we depend upon illegals as cheap source of labor in jobs that U.S. citizens won’t take.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by monkey cabal

Okay, then riddle me this: If there truly is a plentiful supply of cheap labor in the U.S., then why do employers hire illegals at the risk of sanctions and penalties for their companies? Why not just dip into this mythical cheap labor pool of lily white U.S. citizens?

Illegal aliens fill a need by working hard in low-paying jobs. That is why we have them.

You really think Americans are all white? You really must live in the depths of Mexico to believe that.

[Kele]

monkey cabal:

Rather than regurgitating your previous posts, why don't you answer the questions I posed to you in posts 143 and 145?

As a scholar, I'm interested the statistical information you're posting without citation or reference. I would appreciate it if you could provide credible citations to back up your claims.

As a human being, I'm wondering how you can on one hand, promote the continued exploitation of non-U.S. citizens in the workforce, while completely disregarding the fact that there are over 28 million out of work Americans who would be grateful to work at ANY job for a living wage.

I'll be waiting for your explanations as well as links to the resource materials upon which you are relying for your statistical information.

[monkey cabal]

Originally Posted by Kele

Let me see if I get what you're saying here: It's okay for a certain segment of the population to break the law as long as it directly benefits...YOU.

Me, and every other American consumer who buys fresh California produce (c/o illegal alien fruit pickers), golfs (gardeners and greenskeepers), or works/lives in a building in California (construction workers).

Originally Posted by Kele

You also believe that it is entirely ethical to exploit people based upon their geographic origin by paying them slave wages that citizens would not work for, to deny them the benefits that go along with legal gainful employment...

Exploit? We don’t FORCE them to sneak into the U.S. to take low paying jobs. They are hard-working and ambitions, and come willingly to take difficult, low-paying jobs in order to feed their families. Are you suggesting that we increase their wages and include a benefits package for them?

Originally Posted by Kele

... and to force American taxpayers to supplement those slave wages in the form of emergency room care, food and housing supplementation, a free education for their children, and higher crime rates due to an inordinately steep high school drop-out rate and a propensity to engage in gang activity.

In the first part of your run-on sentence (above) you say that I want to “exploit” illegals. But here in the last part of the same sentence you want to take away the few benefits that we provide for them. Please make up you mind about which side of the issue you are on.

Originally Posted by Kele

While we're at it---California had a population of 37,000,000 people (give or take) as of September 2008. Approximately 12.2% of California's citizen workers are unemployed. That means that 4,514,000 American citizens in California are out of work.

It might do you some good to take a remedial math class, pal. The 37mil people in California at a 12% unemployment rate doesn’t translate to 4.5mil looking for work. The 37mil includes infants and old people. I don’t think 77 year old Grampa Codger and 18 month old baby Sweet Pea are standing in the unemployment lines.

Originally Posted by Kele

Yet you think it is entirely appropriate to continue to allow illegal workers to drive the wage market into the ground--making jobs completely inaccessible to American citizens who cannot afford to work for $6.00 an hour. Who do you think did this work before the glut of illegal aliens showed up?

Before the illegal aliens? Do you think this is a recent phenomenon? We have had illegal aliens since the first day we stretched a three-strand barbed wire fence along our side of the Rio Grande.

Originally Posted by Kele

Furthermore, the vast majority of Americans are NOT hiring illegal aliens to build decks, mow lawns, or babysit their children. Additionally, those illegal aliens who work in the farm industry make up approximately 2% of the entire crop of illegal immigrants coming into this country in flagrant violation of U.S. sovereign law. Sometimes I just can't believe some of the apologist crap I read in this forum.

Probably good to take things in this forum with a grain of salt. I think about 95% of the posts in this forum are made by prejudiced old codgers who simply invent fake statistics to support their otherwise weak-minded arguments.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by monkey cabal

Me, and every other American consumer who buys fresh California produce (c/o illegal alien fruit pickers), golfs (gardeners and greenskeepers), or works/lives in a building in California (construction workers).

Exploit? We don’t FORCE them to sneak into the U.S. to take low paying jobs. They are hard-working and ambitions, and come willingly to take difficult, low-paying jobs in order to feed their families. Are you suggesting that we increase their wages and include a benefits package for them?

In the first part of your run-on sentence (above) you say that I want to “exploit” illegals. But here in the last part of the same sentence you want to take away the few benefits that we provide for them. Please make up you mind about which side of the issue you are on.

It might do you some good to take a remedial math class, pal. The 37mil people in California at a 12% unemployment rate doesn’t translate to 4.5mil looking for work. The 37mil includes infants and old people. I don’t think 77 year old Grampa Codger and 18 month old baby Sweet Pea are standing in the unemployment lines.

Before the illegal aliens? Do you think this is a recent phenomenon? We have had illegal aliens since the first day we stretched a three-strand barbed wire fence along our side of the Rio Grande.



Probably good to take things in this forum with a grain of salt. I think about 95% of the posts in this forum are made by prejudiced old codgers who simply invent fake statistics to support their otherwise weak-minded arguments.

Since most of the Ilegals come from Mexico how do you feel about how Mexico treats it's poor? Is it somehow the United States fault Mexico kicks it's poor to the curb and encourages them to risk their lives crossing illegally in the desert? Why is it up to the US to provide tax payer funded Social Services to people of another Country?

[monkey cabal]

Originally Posted by Kele

Please do some research before spewing out blanket statements that can be so easily rebutted.....

Research? I cited a NY Times article above. You cited http:// la.metblogs. com. Is www. la.metblogs. com the most reputable source of information you can find to back your arguments? Get real.